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Discussions on Goblet of Fire "I don't know who put my name in the Goblet of Fire ..."

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Old 17-10-2004, 11:18   #11
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Re: Alarm Bells and Scars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaise
I read the sentance and it does seems a little odd and that 'never' should be in there but why do we have multiple UK editions with the same typo and no corrections - usually these are identified and changed!
Blaise, why do you think it odd that "never" should be in there? I think it odd that it isn't. To me, in the context of what is happening, and by the use of "forgive me," Fudge is trying to tell Dumbledore the scar doesn't mean anything and that Harry is just insane/trying to get attention.

Can you please clear up for me how you think it makes sense that the "never" should be left out?
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Old 17-10-2004, 11:38   #12
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Re: Alarm Bells and Scars!

When Fudge says this, he is intimating that he has previously heard about a curse scar acting as an alarm bell, and almost saying that there was no real evidence that this means anything at all.

To me, this indicates that at some stage in the past, someone somewhere has had a scar, which was the result of a curse - which was successful or backfired - which had in some way alerted it's owner to something, but which, in the end, did not materialise.

Thus Fudge almost says that he understands that perhaps Harry is feeling something in his scar, but that this does not particularly mean anything significant.

That is my feeling, in any event, and the reason I originally posted the thread - and it appears to be that this has sparked further controversy in the fact that some books have the word "never" and some do not, which of course puts an entirely different spin on things!!
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Old 18-10-2004, 11:26   #13
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Re: Alarm Bells and Scars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boing
Blaise, why do you think it odd that "never" should be in there? I think it odd that it isn't. To me, in the context of what is happening, and by the use of "forgive me," Fudge is trying to tell Dumbledore the scar doesn't mean anything and that Harry is just insane/trying to get attention.

Can you please clear up for me how you think it makes sense that the "never" should be left out?
Shoot me - it was a typo!

Geez, I was stating is seemed a little strange that we have had multiple editions of the books and in GoF we have had a few edits - but yet this one seems to continue through uncorrected
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Old 19-10-2004, 05:15   #14
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Re: Alarm Bells and Scars!

Tink, I see your point now. It seems as though, if we take "alarm bell" to be a more sarcastic comment, the sentence would work out.

Either way I view it, however, it seems Fudge is saying the same thing. But that is because I am viewing an "alarm bell" as something that would give an actual warning. That could be an American interpretation, however. If we see it as something that is a false alarm, then the different sentences could be different.

Can someone from the UK clear up whether an alarm bell is something that gives an actual warning or can be an idiomatic expression that is used to describe something that was a false alarm? I think that would clear some things up for me.


Thanks!
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Old 19-10-2004, 12:56   #15
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Re: Alarm Bells and Scars!

Well my take - Alarms Bells is a saying when you are trying to make a warning - but can be used in humour as well ...

She said I had to meet the parents *alarm bells rang in head* I declind on the basis of ....

Poor example I know - but it can be used in humour and sarcasm etc ...

But in essence I agree with your point - grammatically speaking it seems that the never should be in there - what compels me is that it is still in UK editions through various versions ....
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'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 20-10-2004, 12:44   #16
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Re: Alarm Bells and Scars!

O.K. give me the page number, I'm in the U.K. and I'm sure mine has the "never".
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Old 21-10-2004, 11:34   #17
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Re: Alarm Bells and Scars!

GoF Hard back version - Page 613 'The Parting of the ways' - first sentance - have fun looking
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'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 11-12-2004, 13:44   #18
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Re: Alarm Bells and Scars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerbell
In GoF, when Dumbledore is trying to convince Fudge that Voldemort has indeed returned, and that Harry's scar has been warning him of the Dark Lord's presence/anger throughout the year, Fudge says:

"You'll forgive me, Dumbledore, but I've heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before..."
Okay, so let's take a look at it both ways:

You'll forgive me, Dumbledore, but I've heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before . . .

Given the situation, Fudge's general demeanor, etc. - for this sentence to make any sense, it would have to be sarcasm on the part of Fudge. He would be saying, you'll forgive me, but I've heard of a curse scar telling us something that wasn't true before - an alarm bell in this case would be a false alarm. That still leaves us with Fudge not believing that Harry's scar is actually telling anything, but leaves it open for discussion as to whose scar was giving false alarms in the past . . .


*******

You'll forgive me, Dumbledore, but I've never heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before . . .

In this sentence, Fudge is discounting that Harry's scar could actually be giving a warning and that he's never heard of it happening.

Does this make sense?
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Old 11-12-2004, 16:03   #19
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Re: Alarm Bells and Scars!

Ohh yah - it makes great sense ....

But what seems apparant that if this was a typo - it was never and as far as I am aware still hasnt been corrected in any UK versions!
We have seen JKR make mistakes - we have seen publishers make mistakes - and they are always corrected in later editions ...

So - we have two ways of looking at that ...

a) It was just thought we would all see it didnt make sense and add the word ourselves

b) It was intended and the US translated versions are reading the sentance very differently ...

While I agree gramatically the never should be in there - I just question why it was never corrected ...
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'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 12-12-2004, 04:30   #20
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Re: Alarm Bells and Scars!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boing
Given the situation, Fudge's general demeanor, etc. - for this sentence to make any sense, it would have to be sarcasm on the part of Fudge. He would be saying, you'll forgive me, but I've heard of a curse scar telling us something that wasn't true before - an alarm bell in this case would be a false alarm. That still leaves us with Fudge not believing that Harry's scar is actually telling anything, but leaves it open for discussion as to whose scar was giving false alarms in the past . . .
The way I have always seen this is that in the past, Fudge has heard someone claim something because they have received a 'warning' through a scar they have. Whether or not this claim was substantiated or not is irrelevant, I am now more interested in knowing whether this was linked with Dumbledore's scar on his knee!
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