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Discussions on Goblet of Fire "I don't know who put my name in the Goblet of Fire ..."

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Old 21-09-2004, 13:47   #1
Weasleyfanforever
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Who Changed the Portkey?

When Harry and Cedric were transported to the graveyard via the Triwizard Cup Portkey... Harry also used it to return to Hogwarts...

Who set the Portkey to return ??

How did the wands shadows know it would take Harry back ??

Could it been one of the Death Eaters there, that is actually a double agent working for the Order? (i.e. Snape?)
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Old 30-09-2004, 14:28   #2
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Re: Who Changed the Portkey?

I always assumed it was the ghosts or Snape but i gave it some more thought--
remember in book 1 when Ollivander said Lily was good at charms--well in theory she could become good enough to not need a wand right?
it is possible she did some kind of reverse spell on the portkey
Just an idea i had--in case there is anyone with an anti Snape complex
as far as the other ghosts--james is too obvious
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Old 30-09-2004, 16:24   #3
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Re: Who Changed the Portkey?

Wow! I have to say Snape. I know, but a it could have been Lily. I will stay with the double agent thing. Snape must of done something with the portkey with Harry and Vold were going at it. Especially when the encantaion happened between the two wands.
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Old 30-09-2004, 21:47   #4
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Re: Who Changed the Portkey?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weasleyfanforever
When Harry and Cedric were transported to the graveyard via the Triwizard Cup Portkey... Harry also used it to return to Hogwarts...

Who set the Portkey to return ??

How did the wands shadows know it would take Harry back ??

Could it been one of the Death Eaters there, that is actually a double agent working for the Order? (i.e. Snape?)
This is a good question.

I'm going to guess that a) portkeys can be one way or two way and that the cup was a two way portkey that simply brought Harry back. If portkeys always return to their point of origin, then the adult shadows would have known this. Or b) Crouch/Moody charmed the cup to be a two way portkey so that once Voldemort had his fun with Harry he could send Harry's corpse back as a highly dramatic mystery. Voldemort likes to use fear as a form of terror that aids his purposes. Remember, he didn't want anybody to know he was back. So Harry showing up dead would have upset the wizarding world, but the mystery of the death of the "Boy Who Lived" would have struck fear into their hearts, thus serving Voldemort's purposes.

The Order was reassembled only because Harry came back with news that Voldemort was alive. Besides, if the Order had been aware of Voldemort's plan to kill Harry, Dumbledore would never have allowed Harry to touch the cup. In fact, the moment it was charmed the whole Order would have grabbed ahold of it to give Voldemort a charming little home coming party.

So although your question is a good one, I don't believe there was any skullduggery involved on the part of the Order. I fear that a more mundane explanation might satisfy the question.

I keep shooting down comments you make. You're going to start hating me soon. LOL I hope you won't take it personally. I really enjoy the mental jolt some of these questions are giving me.

BTW, I did some research on portkeys over at the Harry Potter Lexicon and found the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Portkey
Portkey (GF6, GF10, GF32, GF34, OP7, OP36)
A Portkey is an enchanted object, often a piece of supposedly worthless junk, which when touched will transport a person to a preprogrammed location. An object can be transformed into a Portkey by the Portus spell, but the caster must be authorized to do so. The Portkey Office is part of the Department of Magical Transport at the Ministry of Magic.
Nowhere in this description or in the description of the Portus spell is the portkey defined as a one way or two way portal. So there is still a mystery here, but perhaps only one of ignorance to the inner workings of Jo's wonderful world.
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Old 01-10-2004, 10:21   #5
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Re: Who Changed the Portkey?

If it was two way--why wouldnt they just touch it again before Cedric got killed--instead Cedric had the idea of them getting out their wands prepared for the unknown
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Old 01-10-2004, 11:41   #6
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Re: Who Changed the Portkey?

Good point Kingsley! However, did they not move forward, away from the Cup, thinking that perhaps this was still part of the Tournament, so did not immediately think to return?

I think that the Cup was a "return ticket" as it were, and that Crouch/Moody had made it that way, perhaps not just to send Harry's body back, but perhaps for Voldemort to return to Hogwarts and reek havoc!
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Old 02-10-2004, 10:10   #7
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Re: Who Changed the Portkey?

I think you will find that Portkeys are a one way deal - in GoF and the World Cup after people appeared after using a portkey, they were thrown into a box to be reused - and gives the impression it is a one way deal, I am sure this is re-iterated in OoTP somewhere but dont ask me to find the reference ...
All portkeys we have seen used so far are single use and support the quasi fact they are a one way deal!
And also agreed with Kingsley point - if this one was charmed for a return, I am sure Harry would have picked it up ... if indeed it is know some portkey are used for a return journey!
So sorry Imp, you might have to expand your mind on this one

For me, said it before and say it again, it is most likely to be a Death Eater and of that, my Fav, One Severus Snape
Everyone was distracted by the event of Harry & Voldemort fighting, this was perfect for a DE to go 'portus' up the cup again
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Old 07-10-2004, 14:22   #8
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Re: Who Changed the Portkey?

I have to wonder, if it *was* Snape, how did James know it would return Harry to Hogwarts?

He says to Harry, "you must get to the Portkey, it will return you to Hogwarts." So, I see it as either he knew that Portkeys can be two-way - perhaps in case you forget something and need to get back, or that Lily (I like this idea by the way) charmed it somehow.

But, how would Lily know what object to charm? Would she have had time to charm it? She would have needed to look around, find the object, charm it. And then, how did James know it was "the Portkey?" If Lily could just charm any object, she would have done something a lot closer . . .

Do you think that the ghosts in Voldemort's wand could somehow talk to each other? Like Cedric died and then he told Harry's parents what happened so they knew how he and Harry had gotten to where they were and Lily would then know which object to charm?

Good questions, everyone.
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Old 07-10-2004, 18:55   #9
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Re: Who Changed the Portkey?

Dumbledore said that the things that came out of Voldemort's wand had been shadows of thepeople they were, so I am not entirely sure that any of them would have been able to charm the object. I think that perhaps either James or Lily saw the person that changed the portkey do it, so they knew that it was going to take Harry back to Hogwarts. I personally think it was Snape that changed it, but I am assuming that Lily or James would have said that it was Snape that changed it back, if they were able to see his face, but they wouldn't have been able to, as all of the Death Eaters wear masks...
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Old 08-10-2004, 12:35   #10
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Re: Who Changed the Portkey?

Wheezy is indeed correct, they were 'shadows' of the victims, not the ghosts or other entities ...
As far as sanctioned beings - I don't think they were more than a result of clever magic - powerful but clever but not much else ...
I really think looking at where we have seen port keys mentioned, they are one way deals - as in you use them and then discard before you place Portus back on them to activate another trip ...

The cup seems to have had Portus performed on it by someone who was full in body - and assumption high I would say that the shadows saw who it was and knew they were trying to help - and the natural assumption that wherever the cup was being pointed towards, it would have been safety ... in the situation Harry was in it isn't likely the person that did it was looking to place Harry into anymore trouble, like hello where else could Harry have gone and been in more danger!
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