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Discussions on Muggles, magical creatures and everything else .. "Them! Don' listen properly, do they? Don' look properly either."

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Old 31-03-2006, 12:10   #21
Alz
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vold. E. Mort
grr, all you Dobby haters! Dobby is Harry's friend and will be his friend at the end of book 7.
Hey - don't get me wrong - once he was finally freed by Harry I think he was then acting under his own steam - and we have seen him become tremendously loyal to Harry - the question seems to surround before that ... and also SM made some great points to that effect ...
I think Dobby in his efforts from the start of CoS might have been under instruction from Malfoy - which then begs the question is perhaps his freedom a 'pre-agreed' price for his full assistance in the efforts?
I know you can argue he is a slave and has to do what he is told - but you get better results with co-operation rather than oppression!
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Old 03-10-2006, 06:20   #22
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

Please forgive if this has been mentioned elsewhere, Dobby's so-called "clue" has baffled me for along time-yet reading CoS post HBP, I think it finally makes sense. And it's not good-

CoS pg.16- "Hang on-this hasn't got anything to do w/Vol-sorry-with You-Know-Who, has it? You could just shake or nod," he added hastily as Dobby's head tilted worryingly close to the wall again.

Slowly, Dobby shook his head.

"Not-not He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, sir-"

But Dobby's eyes were wide and he seemed to be trying to give Harry a hint.
Harry, however, was completely lost.

"He hasn't got a brother, has he?"(He has a horcrux though!)

Dobby shook his head, his eyes wider than ever.

Cos pg. 339- "You told me all this had nothing to do with He Who Must Not Be Named, remember? Well-"

"It was a clue, sir," said Dobby, his eyes widening, as though this was obvious.Was giving you a clue. The Dark Lord, before he changed his name, could be freely named, you see?" (You mean before he started splitting his soul w/horcruxes!)

When I read this now it seems fairly clear that Dobby knows that Tom Riddle is Lord Voldemort-but he also knows about his horcruxes and that the diary is one. According to what we've been told by Dumbledore-Malfoy was unaware of what the diary actually was. Should we be questioning Dobby? Malfoy? or Dumbledore? Haven't drawn any conclusions-what do you guys think?
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Old 09-10-2006, 09:22   #23
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

Wow - could it be that Dobby was the one that assisted RAB?
I mean, your right - when read in that context it would seem Dobby knew a suprising amount about that diary - I mean would it have been panick stations if all Lucius was planning to do was frame Arthur by planting the diary on Ginny?
No, indeed not - Dobby was really worried about you know who - and he knew it was linked to that diary - so, do some theorising and you can see where that is going!
Excellent again SM - I mean, even if it wasnt Dobby - he still had inroads to other house elf's - namely Kreacher!
Would certainly make a great question to pose to JKR wouldnt it - explain the above and why Dobby was so sure of the risk of Voldemort from a diary!
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:52   #24
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

Yeah-I'm still wrapping my head around the implications of this and you're absolutely right to make the connection to R.A.B. and Kreacher -darn I didn't even think of that You know right away it would seem like this would mean that one of the Malfoys knows everything but I'm not sure if that's the case or not, lots to think about
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Old 10-10-2006, 10:06   #25
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

pretty thought provoking for certain! How did Dobby know? can house elves communicate family secrets with each other? Did Dobby perhaps sneak a peak at the diary at some point and put 2 & 2 together? You are right Alz, a plot to smear the Weasley name is certainly no reason to panic, and wouldn't realy effect Harry at all, at least not substantially. So . . . he had to know! Great catch SM! I agree that Lucious didn't know, he would have been much more careful with the diary had he thought it was a horcrux. We don't know how old Dobby is . . . younger than Kreacher, but that doesn't say much with an unknown lifespan, and no known house elf babies known of . . . if Lucious and Narcissa were unaware, could he have learned it from the previous generation? or did he perhaps figure it out from looking in the diary himself . . . he does seem the curious adventurous type.
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Old 10-10-2006, 16:11   #26
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

I thought I'd read this thread as a lark with my smug knowlege that Dobbie is, of course, true blue and beyond question...but now I've got to admit to that maybe you've picked up on something.

I've always been a bit bugged by the behavior of the house elf from the statue of magical breathren in the MOM. The wizard defends Harry, the witch attacks Bellarix and the centaur goes for Voldemort. But "Meanwhile, the goblin and the house-elf scutled toward the fireplaces set along the wall." Not much aid there, unless perhaps they were going for help, because a little later on we have "...Harry saw the tinyh gold statues of the house-elf and the goblin leading a stunned-looking Cornelius Fudge forward."

I suppose they might have just been going to find recruits for the fight, but this always struck me as the opposite of how a true house elf would have acted. Then again, maybe this was just the foreshadowing of Kreacher's treachery. Dumbledore comments in the subsequent chapter that "The fountain we destroyed tonight told a lie. We wizards have mistreated and abused our fellows for too long, and we are now reaping our reward."

Hmmm...

Last edited by gbogbo; 10-10-2006 at 16:23..
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Old 10-10-2006, 21:11   #27
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius Potter Fan View Post
We don't know how old Dobby is . . . younger than Kreacher, but that doesn't say much with an unknown lifespan
Kreacher has been in the Black family for a min. of 7 generations...

'Kreacher would never move anything from its proper place in Master's house,' said the elf, then muttered very fast, 'Mistress would never forgive Kreacher if the tapestry was thrown out, seven centuries it's been in the family, Kreacher must save it, Kreacher will not let Master and the blood traitors and the brats destroy it -'


hope this heaps
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Old 12-10-2006, 04:08   #28
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

Hmmm-that statement says that the tapestry was in the family for 7 generations, but that doesn't necessarily mean Kreacher has been. SPF is right, we have no idea how long the lifespan of house-elves are although Kreacher is described as ancient. Thinking about how house-elves are tied to one family for life-I wanted to check if we have anything to suggest that the same holds true for a family of house-elves and I found-

GoF pg. 381-...."I is looking after the Crouches all my life, and my mother is doing it before me, and my grandmother is doing it before her...."

Winky's statement does suggest that generations of house-elves serve the same family. Given that the Blacks and the Malfoys are related to each other, then it is possible that Dobby and Kreacher are also related by blood. In fact their behavior in HBP w/each other seemed like familial rivalry no? They perhaps have the ability to share secrets with each other...
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Old 12-10-2006, 12:35   #29
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

I also just remembered that in OotP we saw Kreacher's ancestors heads mounted on plaques on the wall! so there had been a few over the centuries, but still no set idea of just how long they live.

Just for fun here, but . . . do you suppose it possible that Dobby could be Kreacher's son?
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Old 13-10-2006, 04:23   #30
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

LOL Hey even though that tickles, I suppose it could be true-reading through their fist-fight again-they more reminded me of brothers I have to add though that I'm still pondering the Narcissa factor in all this, there is a chance she'll end up a white hat and that she's the one who sent Dobby, hmmm...
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