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Reference and Trivia from Potter "Look! I think I've got an unaspected planet! Oooh, which one's that, Professor?"

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Old 23-09-2004, 09:40   #1
Finnegan
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Post The Number Twelve

The number twelve appears to be recurring in HP:

- 12 uses for dragon's blood

- 12 school governors

- 12 years in Azkaban for Sirius

- 12 is number of Ron and Percy's room in the Leaky Cauldron

- 12 Grimmauld Place

... and many, many more!

JKR has also stated that the basic structure she uses when writing HP is in 12 parts. Any ideas of where this preoccupation with the number 12 comes from?
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Old 28-09-2004, 11:23   #2
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Re: The Number Twelve

I believe this comes from the common thread in all the HP books of time - there are several references to time - particularly in PoA where in particular we have the time turner and Harry and Hermione actually do go back in time - and time can be broken down into 12 hour blocks - 24 hours a day, the clock having 12 'sections', 12 months in the year, 12 signs of the zodiac....
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Old 29-09-2004, 10:57   #3
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Re: The Number Twelve

Yes indeed, the number 12 symbolises many an important event ... and fair to say time is one of the strongest links ...
Midnight, usually 12.00 represents the death of one day and the birth of another ... this could also be a factor ...

JKR likes to play numbers and words in Harry Potter there are several references to both multiple use of words and numbers - is the purposeful repetition an overall clue?

it may be worth looking at instances when 12 is used - Grimmauld place represents a 'hidden order' headquarters so the speculative use here could represent secrecy ...
I will look over the occurrence of 12 and where it appears, might be good to see a link of situation and speculative overtones ...
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Old 01-10-2004, 08:34   #4
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Re: The Number Twelve

Also, in an interview with Jeremy Paxman before OotP was released that is on CBBC Newsround, JKR states that she has 12 "grid things" for each book to help her organize. That suggests that each book is separated into 12 important points - just more food for thought.

Quote:

"This is the plan for Order of the Phoenix. I have these grid things for every book - well I have about twelve grid things for every book. It's just a way of reminding myself what has to happen in each chapter to advance us in the plot. And then you have all your sub-plots. It's just a way of keeping track of what going on. "

Interesting.
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Old 01-10-2004, 09:13   #5
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Re: The Number Twelve

How many DA members were there--was it more than 12?
Also wasnt it 12 death eaters that showed up for the MoM showdown at the end of book 5--I cant really remember other references--
So each book is written into 12 parts--I know there is always a closing speech by Dumbledore, then the ride back on the train--those are a definite 2 out of the 12
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Old 08-10-2004, 11:47   #6
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Re: The Number Twelve

So what you are saying Kings, that there are always 12 definitive threads within each book?

So another one could be where Harry is reunited with the Weasleys before term starts, and Mrs Weasley in particular fusses over him...

Harry's birthday is always mentioned in the early chapters, prior to term starting...

The Great Feast on the first day of term, where Dumbledore addresses the students and the first years go across the lake and get sorted by the Sorting Hat...

So we have 5 out of the 12 so far now!!!
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Old 09-10-2004, 01:39   #7
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Re: The Number Twelve

I think what JKR is saying is that she has a certain amont of information she needs to put across in the book ...
She then gets this information and splits it into 12 parts ...
This isnt to say she has 12 chapters per book where the information is planted - I just think she feels that if she has 12 blocks of information it makes it easier for her to work out what goes where in the plot ...
Each part could contain 2, 3 or more 'pieces' of information she wishes to plant so I am not sure the 12 parts are 'plotlines' or more groups of information that needs to be implanted ...
I can see her using it almost like a check list and ticking off the parts she has included ...
Just my thoughts
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Old 15-10-2004, 14:57   #8
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Talking Re: The Number Twelve

and twice there's twelve at the table until the thirteenth comes and sits down....

once in POA at Christmas
once in OOTP - and Sirius was the first to rise.
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Old 16-10-2004, 07:42   #9
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Re: The Number Twelve

I think I found another one!!!

in PS/SS when Harry gets his Hogwart's letters delivered to him --

I listened to this last night, so If I'm wrong, please forgive.

First Harry gets one letter,
then three,
then six

then *TWELVE*

then twenty-four
then the whole slew comes into the living room on "no post" Sunday.

Just another minute observation.
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Old 24-10-2004, 05:41   #10
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Re: The Number Twelve

OK - we discussed this in the shoutbox a bit as well ...

Wasnt it twelve years for Voldemort to re-surface?

OK - OoTP Department of Mysteries ...

Death Eater Role Call
Lucius Malfoy
Nott
Bellatrix Lestrange
Rodolphus
Crabbe
Rabastan
Jugson
Dolohov
Macnair
Avery
Rookwood
Mulciber

Student/Order Role Call
Harry Potter
Hermione Granger
Ron Weasley
Ginny Weasley
Neville Longbottom
Luna Lovegood
Remus Lupin
Sirius Black
Tonks
Kingsley
Moody
Dumbledore

Unless I am missing anyone - I would say 12 a side ....
*Voldemort appeared later after the battle in the Death Room
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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