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Old 24-07-2007, 04:09   #21
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Re: This is a face of smugness

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Originally Posted by Piper View Post
I thought the part about Harry being the true master of the Elder Wand because he had disarmed Draco of another wand 2 weeks prior was a bit of a stretch honestly.
Having a baby was very out of character for Lupin I thought too.
And I think it was very contradictory to the storyline that she made Harry a Horcrux and then did not kill him off.
Everything just seemed to go the simple way, I expected somethings to go simple, but not almost everything.
We are supposed to buy that it didn't occur to Voldemort to check his Horcruxes after the Diary was destroyed, and he didn't feel it?
I am disappointed........there, I said it.
DiE would have been a much more interesting ending. It was hers to do of course, and I know that it is a childrens series and all, but Bellatrix speaking to Voldemort in the tone of a lover really isn't a childrens thing either.....
wow.....
you really sound disappointed.
I made predictions, and more than half of them were wrong. But I loved the book. I didnt expect JKR to come out too complicated. She covered pretty much everything. Remember, we were all skeptical that how in the world she is going to answer all these questions? DD's past, Harry's past, Voldemort's past and all the HiaH, DiE inclusions were just overwhelming.
Not only she answered them brilliantly, but she also showed us Snape's past, and in a more than simple way.
The only part I was a little biased about was, how she showed Hogwarts. I had a huge problem with a Horcrux in the RoR theory. sounded a bit cheesy. But other than that, I loved the book.
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Old 24-07-2007, 17:32   #22
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Re: This is a face of smugness

today i was going back rereading the book and i think i saw when harry started to figure who the master of the elder wand was.

i think he started to figure it out all the way back in the chapter THE WANDMAKER

page 494-495 " Yes, if you won it, it is more likely to do your bidding, and do it well, then another wand. and this holds true for ALL wands does it? asked harry. i think so replied ollivande, his protuberant eyes upon harry's face. You ask DEEP questions mr potter. wandlore is a complex and mysterious branch of magic. so it isnt neccesary to kill the previous owner to take true possesion of a wand, asked harry. ollivandoer swallowed. necessary? no i should not say that it is necessary to kill

i think harry was not only talking about the wand he took from draco but the wand draco disarmed from DD as well... idk maybe it sounds far fetched but harry's no dummy
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Old 24-07-2007, 18:09   #23
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Re: This is a face of smugness

Well spotted, frodobaggins. Yes, that must be the point when Harry was making sure his theory was correct (he must have started thinking about it a little previously, or else he couldn't have had these questions ready).
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Old 24-07-2007, 18:55   #24
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Re: This is a face of smugness

I, like everyone, got RAB. I was always neutral on HiaH, I was wrong about Harry being Gryffindor's heir, and thus getting the ancestral sword, but the significance of his father's cloak made me feel a bit smug. I just wrote on one of the other DH threads about my thouhts on Tom Riddle and Harry being related through the Peverill line.

My main point of smugness is that Harry died and came back, which I always thought.

One true surprise, and a major new piece of Potterology, is wandlore. I love that a wand will bond with it's owner, and learn from them. It reminds me of the manga series 'Neon Genesis', where the big robot things have to be in sync with their opperators to function, and sometimes, they even grow a kind of sentience of their own, to to defend their owner. Harry's determionnation to acheive his sacred mission to destroy the Dark Lord, the abomination, was so strong within him that even his wand learn it.

And yes, I said 'sacred' mission. There is only one mention of God or Gods in the series that I can recall, and it is by Harry in DH - he says 'Thank God', then someone, Molly I thinks, makes it a bit more secular and vague by following up with 'Thank goodness'. Same thing, really. Harry's scar, I have maintained, marks him as the chosen scourge of God, a righteous firebolt, thrown from the heavens to smite a Faustian villain, guilty of extreme hubris, in trying to slough off death.

Snape hated Harry, as I have said before, because he resembled James, sure. But moreso, because he believed the prophecy, and found his mediocrity frustrating. Snape taught him Expelliarmous, his 'signature move'. I always thought Snape was good, until, I confess, halfway through DH. I was completely satisfied with the way she resolved his story. RIP, Severus.

Dumbledore was not evil - he was Machiavellian, sure, but not evil.

Did anyone else get the impression that Bellatrix and Voldemort were lovers?

I liked it. There were no issues raised that I found confusing, thanks largely to this website, in which almost all of the revelations had been raised at one point or another, except the wands, and the Deathly Haollows themselves. These were welcome surprises.

Dobby hit pretty hard though.

Did anyone else feel that the last 2 paragrphs left open the possibility that maybe his scar would twinge again?

Last edited by Dr Winterbourne; 24-07-2007 at 18:58..
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Old 24-07-2007, 19:55   #25
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Re: This is a face of smugness

i thought the last page before the epilogue left open the idea that ron would try to take the elder wand from harry
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Old 24-07-2007, 20:09   #26
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Re: This is a face of smugness

oh and Alz i think it is a huge stretch to say the DiE theory was true.

DD simply had to do what he did so everything would turn out the way it did. do you think if harry would have known everything from the beginning he would have been able to go through with what he did?

in chapter 24 the Wandmaker harry makes an argument to himself why DD left him in the dark about the hallows ( and possible more)

page 485 " Am i meant to know, but not to seek? Did you know how hard I'd find that? IS that why you made it this difficult? So I'd have time to work that out?

Even harry could admit to himself that knowing all these things at once would be hard to accept so DD wisely set it up so harry would find out about his fate slowly.
becuase DD knew that even though harry was a horcrux and would have to die if he died as DD wanted him to he really wouldnt die

DD was never evil

Last edited by frodobaggins; 24-07-2007 at 21:12..
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Old 24-07-2007, 20:29   #27
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Re: This is a face of smugness

I do have to argue with you and say Dumbledore was never evil. He made mistakes when he was younger as we all do, and much more than rectified them when he was older, if your talking about the muggle/mudblood thing. If your talking about his want/obsession with putting on the ring, which he must have known carried the Ressurection Stone, of course he wanted to, to apologize for his mistakes to his family. Dumbledore was never evil, maybe wrong, or mistaken, but never evil, I think he proved that in the end...

The whole Harry is a Horcrux thing, if you look at it, it was all accidental. Voldemort never meant to make him into one, it just happened because his soul was so instable, it simply broke, and do you think if Voldemort had known it, he wouldn't have tried to make more precautions? Voldemort didn't even know that he was one, so it may be a victory for HiaH, but how much of a victory if the main villian didn't even know it?

And Snape isn't a Victory because you have always said that Snape was in it for himself, which is entirely untrue. Snape was in it for Lily. He wouldn't have done any of the heroic or (seemingly dastardly) things he had done if not for Lily! He always thought that he was fighting to keep Lily's son safe...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alz View Post
... this is also a face who has worked on some crow pie for many of you ... HiaH, DiE, Snape ... ohhhh, so, so many .....

Sorry, it's not polite to gloat but I think after all of these years, I deserve it ... Sure I got some wrong but I think I got the big ones right ... YAYYYY :
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Old 25-07-2007, 11:59   #28
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Re: This is a face of smugness

I agree . . . DD was never evil, only human.! I think we all ate a little crow, as well as served some up!
I was happy that I got more right than wrong, and even though Harry WAS a Horcrux, Voldemort didn't intend it or know it, and Harry didn't die because of that! i do think though that with all of us together, we had just about everything predicted other than the Hallows, and we had even guessed a bit about those.

I think we all owe each other a few "told ya so's" and a ton of pats on the back!
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Old 25-07-2007, 13:11   #29
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Re: This is a face of smugness

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And I agree on Snape.. His treatment of Harry still seems a bit extreme, given his love of Lily. Perhaps he resented the fact that he wasn't his son? Perhaps it was to make us think Snape was evil? Well, whatever the case, Snape was always and remains one of my favorites to love/hate. His death, while enjoyable at the time, was regrettable after harry saw the memory.
Part of Snape's treatment of Harry was an act. He had to be believable in front of the Slytherins. Part of it was that Harry reminded Snape of James, an arche rival. The only part of Harry that looked like his mother was his eyes and they were bespectacled just like his father's. I think with all the memories Harry saw he learned a great deal about Snape that he would have never guessed. Harry also got to see Snape's interactions with Dumbledore, something that drove him crazy for all those years. He could not understand why Dumbledore trusted Snape, but he saw more than enough in Snape's memories to answer his questions. I think the fact that Snape was in the dark about many things just in the same way that Harry was made him feel even closer to Snape. They both were following Dumbledore, yet they both knew that Dumbledore was not revealing everything to them. That's what you call loyalty!

I was right about Snape, right down to some of the reasons why he was close to Dumbledore, although, I thought their relationship might have gone back to Snape's school days.

I was right about who ended up with whom. (The epilogue sort of reminded me of my one and only fanfic on the subject, quite a lot, actually.)

I cried when Dobby died. Is that sad or what?

I think Lupin and Tonk's deaths would have been more emotional if we even knew how they died. I was sad about Fred. That was a tragedy. But I am only glad she did not do away with one of the trio. I'm sure that would have left many sour memories for people, and really, none of the students we got to know well throughout the years died, except Crabbe and Fred???? Did I miss someone?

The book was great and I like the ending. I said it in another post, but she left all kinds of openings in the epilogue to branch off into another story. (A few of them seemed almost purposeful.) I noticed that all the while I was reading it. I liked DH much better than HBP.
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Old 25-07-2007, 19:04   #30
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Re: This is a face of smugness

I was looking through some old threads, and found one of my first ever posts. Since we're boasting/eating and serving crow, I thought I'd stick this back up here, and chug myself on the shoulder:


I would think it is extremely likely that Harry will confront death in the next book - there are already so many uses of Underworld and resurrection imagery. Fluffy, of course, is a reference to Cerberus that guards the classical underworld. Harry, like Dumbledore, is often linked to the pheonix. The centaurs seem to suggest Harry's demise. He has brought about the death of so many - his parents, Flamel, Quirrell, the basilisk, Cedric, Sirius, and indeed, his mission, for want of a better term, is ultimately concerned with death - he will kill or be killed by Voldemorte. Harry is a bringer of death.

This is of course a good thing. Voldemort, who like a snake shedding its skin, slough's off death. harry, though, is an avatar of death. There is only one way to defeat Death, and that is through birth, and thus Harry, in bringing about death, will allow for (a pheonix-like) rebirth.

So it would not surprise me at all if Harry journeys nehind the veil, perhaps with Voldemort himself, and there, perhaps those 'who he sore[ly] miss[es], those who love him, can aid in the destruction of the dark lord.

Harry is a 'lunar' hero - he brings about death to allow for rebirth.

Last edited by Dr Winterbourne; 25-07-2007 at 19:07..
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