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Discussions on Chamber of Secrets "In my fifth year, The Chamber of Secrets was opened ..."

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Old 23-06-2005, 13:38   #21
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Re: Preview of Legilimency?

Maybe the better you get at Occlumency, the easier you can detect even the slightest intrusion into your mind. Harry, who didn't even know it was possible at that point, still had the slight feeling that his mind was being read. If you know it can happen and how to block it, maybe you can feel it even more strongly.
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Old 24-06-2005, 13:43   #22
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Re: Preview of Legilimency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerbell
During the recent CbyC round, I came across the above quote, and it got me thinking....was this an indication of Snape trying Legilimency on Harry to see how/why he had spoken to the snake? Also, was Snape at this time acting as spy for Voldemort/Death Eaters, or is this an example of him protecting Harry?
I just wanted to jump back to the initial starter on this because it is a searching question for those of us that puzzle how Snape can spy for Dumbledore and yet still have access (exacted what form still under discussion) to the Death Eater movement.

I still feel that Snape would have to give a little in order to get the most - as such he would have to fuel Voldemort with some information if he was to maintain the trust that allows his what Dumbledore needs.
I often wonder if that works in advance?
Snape has to employ some form of mental assult and defence and I wonder just how powerful he is at it in comparision to the people he is trying to fool?
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Old 25-06-2005, 14:34   #23
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Re: Preview of Legilimency?

Well, as Snape says, he presents "false memories" when he is around someone, like Voldemort or Dumbledore. So they see him being loyal to them in his actions and thoughts. I believe he at least acts the spy well for both sides, and yes, still not shure which side I believe he is on. But all the order has to do, if Snape tells them he needs info to pass on, is give him some "set up" info that does happen, but isn't entirely important to the orders plans, but may make the death eaters feel that they have "hurt" the order in some way. Of course, this also works in the reverse, if Snape is truly loyal to Voldemort. Sadly, although I think we will learn alot more about Snape in 20 days, I don't think JkR will reveal Snapes loyalty untill the 7th book. . . if even then! I would not be too surprised to see that question go unanswered. (althought I would not be surprised, I would be upset! )
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Old 26-06-2005, 02:23   #24
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Re: Preview of Legilimency?

JKR did little to support that Snape was all good with the 'Snape has told Dumbledore his story and Dumbledore believes him..' remark ...
This would suggest that perhaps - just maybe that Snape has told a story and not the truth - and as noted above he is able to supress people getting into his head to see his true intentions.
There is another thread somewhere where I touched upon this and concluded that Snape is much better at these skills than both Dumbledore and Voldemort - and that is why he could do what he is doing - because he can supress his true thinking.
I think that is why he was so mad at Harry - and might I even venture worried - because someone broke into his mind and saw things he couldnt supress - and it was probably a long time since he wasnt in control of his own mind and what he wanted others to see.
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Old 29-06-2005, 19:44   #25
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Re: Preview of Legilimency?

I have come to wonder about Snape that way too. I want him to be loyal to Dumbledore, but there is just too much fog in the old crystal ball to sort it all out. Who knows. . . Maybe Snape is just the smart one, the one with a really clear head. He sits back, plays the double agent helping the two sides destroy themselves, then he comes into power and takes over! OK, that is a bit wild, but maybe, the answer to Snape's loyalty is just that Snape is loyal to Snape!
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Old 29-06-2005, 21:13   #26
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Re: Preview of Legilimency?

It really makes sense that Snape is better at Legilimency than DD and Voldemort.

It has me thinking about Snape's hatred of James -- for Snape to be so good, he had to have learnt it from the very beginning, or been a natural at it. He could have used it at school or in the years before switching sides, to access the mind of his most hated enemy - James or even the Mudblood Lily. There may have been things in their minds that shocked him and made his hatred grow.

I like the idea of Snape the All Powerful...not Snape gaining power, but the fact that it could happen. Maybe he will become something like first prime to Voldemort again, surrendering everything he has learnt with Legilimency.
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Old 29-06-2005, 21:55   #27
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Re: Preview of Legilimency?

Voldemort used it on Harry without a wand but I think that was a direct link to the scar and the backfired curse. I think Snape is on DD's GOOD side, he is just a very bitter old git who can't get past some old highschool pranks. He wants revenge and who better to get it from, than James' son. We know that Snape is a master of his mind and has the ability to see into others but when he breaks into Harry's mind, Harry sees different flashes of memories. So, if someone was mindreading him, wouldn't we see Harry either getting confused at why he is thinking what he is? Snape drags up memories of his that he doesn't want to remember. Changes his train of thought in a sence. Voldemort puts thoughts into his head, shows Harry what he (V) wants him (Harry) to see.
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Old 30-06-2005, 01:13   #28
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Re: Preview of Legilimency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerbell
During the recent CbyC round, I came across the above quote, and it got me thinking....was this an indication of Snape trying Legilimency on Harry to see how/why he had spoken to the snake? Also, was Snape at this time acting as spy for Voldemort/Death Eaters, or is this an example of him protecting Harry?
In this specific example I think the shrewd look was more of a surprised look on Snape's part. The realization that Harry, the son of Snape's old school nemesis could speak to snakes, a talent that all wizards connect to Dark Magic and Voldemort, was a complete shock. One of the reasons for the animosity between James and Snape was that James hated the Dark Arts, and Snape was into them on a Zen level. I can only guess that Snape looked upon James as a goody-two-shoes and was shocked to find out his son, Harry, had powers that, to his knowledge are only possessed by the Dark Lord. I second Yarvy's comment that if Snape had been trying to read Harry's mind at the moment Harry was talking to the snake, all he'd have seen was Harry's concern for what the snake was up to and fear that it might strike one of the students.
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Old 30-06-2005, 11:37   #29
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Re: Preview of Legilimency?

You know we all seem to be quick to jump on the SiE bandwagon - but lets look at his hidden private thoughts here ...
One looks to be like him crying in the corner as his Dad is shouting about - another is him being humiliated by James Potter.
The of course we know that he 'turned' from DE to goodie - so why are we all under this misconception Snape in underhand and nasty - evil and distrustful?
JKR seems to have gone to great lenghts to show sides of Snape that have him as the victim - and this might be how he took his facination of the dark arts and became a DE - only to want out because he knew it wasnt him.
He isnt evil and nasty - he is a victim of a turbulant upbringing and what he was - what he is now and how he continues to act are all born from that ...
Sorry that was very off-topic!
Mind Tricks anyone
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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