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Old 29-10-2006, 06:13   #11
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Re: Something Amazing!!! Check Out Now

I think that one of the Horcruxes is in Harry's old house. But other than that I am at a loss. As far as the bible thing I have no clue either and I spent 8 years in a Catholic school and my mother making me go to church til I was 18. Sorry but, have no clue.
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Old 29-10-2006, 06:25   #12
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Re: Something Amazing!!! Check Out Now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mc Gonagall View Post
I think that one of the Horcruxes is in Harry's old house. But other than that I am at a loss. As far as the bible thing I have no clue either and I spent 8 years in a Catholic school and my mother making me go to church til I was 18. Sorry but, have no clue.
yeah it is very far fetched in a way but im hoping that someone that is a fan or likes to follow the christian or bible references from the HP books can explain it more..
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Old 29-10-2006, 09:50   #13
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Re: Something Amazing!!! Check Out Now

Quote:
Originally Posted by keeron man boy
12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished.

12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
Okay, the way I am reading into this it is refering to Voldemort, and Voldemort alone. The seven spirits are refering to the seven pieces of his soul and the part about "the last [state] of that man is worse than the first" refers to the fact that Voldemort while he had his soul as a whole thing was worse to deal with than Voldemort with a seven piece soul. Because in HBP Dumbledore mentions something about a person with a whole soul being better able than a person with a split soul.

And as to "12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished." I'm thinking it refers to the fourth book when he comes back to the Riddle house and uses it as his base basically. Or if one would like a future predicion, it might refer to if Voldemort returns to the orphange that he was born and raised in. One never knows, dost one?
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Old 29-10-2006, 19:46   #14
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Re: Something Amazing!!! Check Out Now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Padma Patil View Post
Okay, the way I am reading into this it is refering to Voldemort, and Voldemort alone. The seven spirits are refering to the seven pieces of his soul and the part about "the last [state] of that man is worse than the first" refers to the fact that Voldemort while he had his soul as a whole thing was worse to deal with than Voldemort with a seven piece soul. Because in HBP Dumbledore mentions something about a person with a whole soul being better able than a person with a split soul.

And as to "12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished." I'm thinking it refers to the fourth book when he comes back to the Riddle house and uses it as his base basically. Or if one would like a future predicion, it might refer to if Voldemort returns to the orphange that he was born and raised in. One never knows, dost one?
thats really good!! i didn't think that it was an old clue cause of the horcruxes being introduced in HPB

i think that this can explain the meaning of this whole thread

great job padma
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Old 03-12-2006, 08:25   #15
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Re: Something Amazing!!! Check Out Now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Padma Patil View Post
Okay, the way I am reading into this it is refering to Voldemort, and Voldemort alone. The seven spirits are refering to the seven pieces of his soul and the part about "the last [state] of that man is worse than the first" refers to the fact that Voldemort while he had his soul as a whole thing was worse to deal with than Voldemort with a seven piece soul. Because in HBP Dumbledore mentions something about a person with a whole soul being better able than a person with a split soul.

And as to "12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished." I'm thinking it refers to the fourth book when he comes back to the Riddle house and uses it as his base basically. Or if one would like a future predicion, it might refer to if Voldemort returns to the orphange that he was born and raised in. One never knows, dost one?
I agree with what you said there Padma
So I will try another spin on these quotes, (I am not very bible orientated btw) -Is it possible that the "12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth [it] empty, swept, and garnished." In reference to the orphange, he may have returned to it (before his downfall) and found it deserted and abandoned?
"12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there:" Then it could mean that there is a horcrux in the orphange? Then the next part "and the last [state] of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." He will be significantly worse off if/when all the horcruxs are destroyed, making it easier to defeat?
"12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him." This last part beats me? Involvine ghosts as mentioned by keeron_man_boy .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alz View Post
When Grindlewald was removed - Voldemort stepped up - when Voldemort is removed, another will take the lead ... because that is life - we see it in our news everyday - evil will never know any ends while the possiblity for it to exist remains ...
This is also a good statement/point. The question now is who?
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Old 08-12-2006, 20:38   #16
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Re: Something Amazing!!! Check Out Now

Do we know if J.k.r. has even read the bible?.....not being funny.....just wondered.
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Old 25-02-2007, 18:42   #17
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Re: Something Amazing!!! Check Out Now

When Grindlewald was removed - Voldemort stepped up - when Voldemort is removed, another will take the lead ... because that is life - we see it in our news everyday - evil will never know any ends while the possiblity for it to exist remains ...

Alz, I kind of like that idea but back one step...I read it as Grindewald was the bad, and then Voldemort came and was the worst...this is the end of the series after all so their probably isnt anyone after voldemort, and I say PROBABLY .
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Old 25-02-2007, 22:11   #18
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Re: Something Amazing!!! Check Out Now

I wasn't sure what this was either, until I did some googling. Then I thought I knew what it was, since it was what I was told, but after reading it for myself, I do not agree with what I was told....

And here goes my attempt to explain LOL

I think this is Jesus saying that if you try to go it alone, and cast out your unclean spirit, or demon yourself, (and by unclean spirit/demon, it means desires that are self destructive to your life, like an addiction of some kind for instance), instead of asking him and God to do it for you, and to fill your heart/body with the Holy Spirit, then you will end up worse off than when you began.

In this passage, the house that is swept and organized and unoccupied is the body/heart of a person, not really a house at all, after the person has gone it alone, and tried to cast the unclean spirit -demon out. This particular demon finds the place clean and organized, but unoccupied, and returns with 7 other demons more wicked than itself, Without the protection of God, without the Holy Spirit filling the heart, the other demons move right in also. So the man has 8 demons instead of 1 in the end. So the last state of that man is worse than the first.

I am thinking that this is the passage that some (who happen to be some of my closest relatives) take to mean Jesus is saying that if you are ever right with the Lord, and He helps you to overcome problems or personal demons, then you backslide and revert to your old sinful ways, that you are worse off than before you started.
But after reading it, this seems to me to be Jesus saying don't try to do it yourself, ask Myself/God to do this for you. Before this he is speaking about different ways of casting out demons, and it ends with him saying
28"But (AF)if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Now easily here, I could be wrong, and there could be an entirely different passage where Jesus DOES say that you are worse off if you have backslidden.

I will have to do some serious thinking later about whether or not JKR is using this passage in the series. At this point, my brain is numb and I am not even sure that backslidden is a word.

EDIT:
I just noticed that Tobias said the very same thing that I am saying here, in an earlier post, that I did not notice, except it took him much less space so I do not feel like I have totally misunderstood This Chapter goes on to explain how you have turn toward the people who are living right, and away from the people who are not to stay good, and it says that you have to keep conditions just right so that the goodness can grow and flourish, or else the goodness will wither and die, (IMO)

So who in the series have we seen try to turn away from the bad side, and go to the good side? As far as we have been told, Snape.

So have there been things around that might have endangered Snapes rehabilitation? I think so, he clearly still deeply hates James and Sirius, hatred is one of the unclean spirits, he's been going back around Voldermort and the Death Eaters on a regular basis, he was given a job teaching Defense of the Dark Arts.

I think she might have used this passage to help her to write about the battle that Snape has fought with inner conflict.

Last edited by Piper; 26-02-2007 at 10:58..
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Old 05-05-2007, 01:09   #19
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Re: Something Amazing!!! Check Out Now

Extremely interesting thread.

'In essence divided' - Harry and Voldemort are two aspects of the one force, but where Voldemort clings to life, Harry seeks to bring death and thus rebirth. They are in some aspects the same force - and Harry must be careful that when he slays the Dark Lord, he does not let the adulation go to his head or he will set himself up as the new tyrant.

The other force that could arise, at the end of DH, after Voldemort has been defeated, by Harry, but with Snape's help, is that, in a 'Scourging of the Shire' type of final sub-climax, Snape attempts to rise to the position of Dark Lord himself.

Do the cries of 'Unity' from the hat and other places suggest that the Wizarding world needs a king, rather than the corrupt or blind ministry, or the usurping Dark Lord? The books are consistently nostalgic for an England of yesteryear. Could we see a new king?

Harry shares a few aspects with Arthur - raised in foster care, unaware of his heritage, as arranged by an old wizard. He rises to prominence, draws forth an ancestral sword, and there's all that celtic Hallows stuff.

Will Harry fill the empty throne of the Dark Lord? He would have done well in Slytherin.

If he did, it would be a golden age. But the redeeming hero often becomes the new tyrant if he will not slay himself.
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Old 05-05-2007, 07:38   #20
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Re: Something Amazing!!! Check Out Now

I don't know HOW I missed this one. I must have realy been out of it when I had my surgeries. First, sometimes the King James interpretation can be difficult to understand. We don't speak that way now. I looked it up in a newer translation . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 12:45 - The Message
That's what this generation is like: You may think you have cleaned out the junk from your lives, and gotten ready for God, but you weren't hospitable to my kingdom message, and now all the devils are moving back in.
So, My take here as to the meaning of the passage is pretty clear as stated before, that we must make God the center of our life or the old demons we have been rid of will come back, and be even worse.

Now for what it means for Harry . . . possibly may be where JK got the idea of the Horcruxes, as well as the physical transformations that became worse as he created each one.

-or-

She had an appointment with someone named Mat at 12:45pm . . . just because the other note on the same card is clearly an appointment for the optician.

Nevertheless, something to think about!
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