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Poll: When did Dumbledore first suspect that Riddle/Voldemort had made a Horcrux?
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When did Dumbledore first suspect that Riddle/Voldemort had made a Horcrux?

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Old 16-02-2007, 11:00   #1
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Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

The Question, When did Dumbledore first suspect that Tom Riddle/Voldemort had created a Horcrux(s)? I think that the latest point at which DD would have realized it would be at the end of Harry's first year when it became known that Voldemort was possesing Quirrel. We know that DD was sure of it when the diary was destroyed, but . . . at what point between did he start to suspect? Some have mentioned that it was when Riddle asked for the DADA job, some think maybe before, some think later. If we give DD the credit he has earned and deserves, we should say as soon as the first was created, while Tom was still at Hogwarts, but there is no way to know till JKR tells us . . . if she does!
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Old 16-02-2007, 11:14   #2
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Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

Let me be the first to ride shotgun here, SPF.
I think DD realised it when Tom came for DADA job. He may have known about it before, but that meeting in his office practically sealed it. DD even reflects all that in his disappointment. He even says that he would love to punish Voldemort for his damned deeds, but he couldnt do it in a simple manner.
If you know DD's character, you have to give him that much credit.
I dont expect JKR to tell us this in book 7. I think she would want us, her intelligent readers, to figure at least that much out.
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Old 16-02-2007, 13:06   #3
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Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

My thinking is when the curse rebounded on him and he was vaporized. DD must have suspected something was odd when the curse rebounded and then Voldemort didn't die. (They would have found his body if he died)

Along the way he probably did some investigating and over time put all the pieces together.
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Old 16-02-2007, 15:29   #4
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Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

i have to agree with secret-keeper.
Dumbledore worked for a long time, tracking down memories of Tom Riddle, trying to find out why he didn't die. DD no doubt had suspicions after that night though.
When we finally see Slughorns memory, we know that DD knew what Voldemort had done, just not how many.
And his on confrontations with Voldemort, things said in passing etc.
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Old 16-02-2007, 19:22   #5
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Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

I voted for after the AK curse rebounded as well, but honestly I am not set in stone on that because my thoughts on this were based on the impressions that I was getting while reading HBP, and after looking back through HBP today, I cannot locate what it was exactly that would have given me this idea. For some reason, I was sure that Slughorn had not given Dumbledore the memory until he returned to Hogwarts in year 6. I cannot find what made me think this though.
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Old 17-02-2007, 04:24   #6
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Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

The memory was just a confirmation, not information. DD had already destroyed a horcrux before Slughorn even gave the full memory. They were deep into this horcrux business already, werent they?
All
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBP
"Yes, I certainly do know that you have seen and done much since leaving us," DD said quietly. "Rumors of your doings have reached your old school, Tom. I should be sorry to believe half of them."
The way DD manhandles Voldemort through words, it doesnt take a rocket science to figure out that they are not talking about the characteristics of an "expelliarmus".
I can not prove for sure that DD knew there for sure.

but then this......
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBP
Harry Let out a hastily stifled gasp. Voldemort had entered the room. His features were not those Harry had seen emerge from the great stone cauldron almost two years ago; They were not as snake-like, the eyes were not yet scarlet, the face not yet masklike, and yet he was no longer handsome Tom Riddle. It was as though his features had been burned and blurred; they were waxy and oddly distorted, and the whites of the eyes now had a permanently bloody look. He was wearing a long black cloak, and his face was as pale as the snow glistering on his shoulders.
If a wizard of DD's abilities cant make out what is going on here, then I am probably reading wrong books.
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-Godric Gryffindor the founder of house Gryffindor

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Old 17-02-2007, 09:34   #7
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Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

From the evidence it seems that Dumbledore had some awareness at the time that the Potter's were murdered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumbledore. OotP
`My answer is that my priority was to keep you alive. You were in more danger than perhaps anyone but I realised. Voldemort had been vanquished hours before, but his supporters - and many of them are almost as terrible as he - were still at large, angry, desperate and violent.
And I had to make my decision, too, with regard to the years ahead. Did I believe that Voldemort was gone for ever? No. I knew not whether it would be ten, twenty or fifty years before he returned, but I was sure he would do so, and I was sure, too, knowing him as I have done, that he would not rest until he killed you.
(Please note, in respect of the thread "Did Dumbledore set it all up?" that Dumbledore only ever speaks in the singular, "I had to make my decision")

We also know that Dumbledore was opposed to any discussion of Horcruxes in the school by the time that Tom Riddle had reached his fifth year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slughorn. HBP
"But all the same, Tom . . . keep it quiet, what I've told — that's to say, what we've discussed. People wouldn't like to think we've been chatting about Horcruxes. It's a banned subject at Hogwarts, you know. . . . Dumbledore's particularly fierce about it. ..."
At this time Dumbledore was not Headmaster but he was obviously exerting alot of influence in this regard.

The fact that both Slughorn and Dumbledore knew about Horcruxes suggests that at some time information was more generally available.

At Dumbledore's first meeting with Tom Riddle, Tom suggests that his mother could not have been a witch because she died.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle. HBP
"There are a lot of Toms," muttered Riddle. Then, as though he could not suppress the question, as though it burst from him in spite of himself, he asked, "Was my father a wizard? He was called Tom Riddle too, they've told me."
"I'm afraid I don't know," said Dumbledore, his voice gentle.
"My mother can't have been magic, or she wouldn't have died," said Riddle, more to himself than Dumbledore. "It must've been him. So — when I've got all my stuff— when do I come to this Hogwarts?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumbledore. HBP
Finally he was forced to accept that his father had never set foot in Hogwarts. I believe that it was then that he dropped the name forever, assumed the identity of Lord Voldemort, and began his investigations into his previously despised mother's family — the woman whom, you will remember, he had thought could not be a witch if she had succumbed to the shameful human weakness of death.
It seems that from an early age Riddle/Voldemort was interested in immortality.

From his first meeting with Tom, Dumbledore was aware that Tom had no qualms about hurting people or killing.

So from the earliest time I guess that Dumbledore knew that there was a potential for Tom to make a Horcrux.

Dumbledore said;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumbledore. HBP
Dumbledore paused for a moment, marshaling his thought, and then said, "Four years ago, I received what I considered certain proof that Voldemort had split his soul."
"Where?" asked Harry. "How?"
"You handed it to me, Harry," said Dumbledore. "The diary, Riddles diary, the one giving instructions on how to reopen the Chamber of Secrets."
My guess is that Dumbledore first suspected that a Horcrux had been made when he learned of the murders of the Riddles. That his thoughts were confirmed when the "Voldergeist" escaped from Godric's Hollow and that he had made more than one Horcrux when the diary was destroyed.

I don't think that we know about the old body Voldemort. I think that we will learn more about it in DH when we will also learn more about the bodies of James and Lily
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Old 18-02-2007, 14:36   #8
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Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

I voted, The presence of the lightening scar on Harry.

I too think it was shortly after the Potters died that Dumbledore noticed something unusual. I mean, did we ever find out what happened to Voldemort's body when the spell rebounded? The other choice of the unsual way the curse rebounded, how do we know it was unsual? It had never happened before in the wizarding world. I think the shape of the scar had something to do with when Dumbledore started suspecting something. When you think of lightening, you don't think of the end of something. You think of the rumble of the thunder and how close the storm is and when the next bolt is going to strike and where. Lightening is not a calming image, its a violent image associated with destruction and power.

Dumbledore might have even suspected something before that, but I think that when the lightening scar showed up, it gave Dumbledore a little more something to go on.
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Old 06-03-2007, 15:05   #9
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Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

I think that when Slughorn shared a "tampered" memory of Tom Riddle and his gang asking about Horcruxes at Hogwarts, DD put two and two together and discovered that Horace had told Tom (his shinyest piece of bling at the time - he's a collector, remember) all about Horcruxes and then modified that memory. DD, could see that the memory was obviously tampered with, and was able to ascertain that Riddle knew about Horcruxes from Slughorn.
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Old 06-03-2007, 16:50   #10
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Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

I chose when Tom came to ask for the DADA job. I think as soon as Dumbledore seen Tom he knew that his transformation was cause by splitting his soul.

"It was as though his features had been burned and blurred; they were waxy and oddly distorted, and the whites of the eyes now had a permanently bloody look, though the pupils were not yet the slits that Harry knew they would become. He was wearing a long black cloak and his face was as pale as the snow glistening on his shoulders."

I think had he not suspected this he would have showed some sort of surprise.

"The Dumbledore behind the desk showed no sign of surprise."

This suggests that he has been following Voldemorts moves after he left school as well as being told perhaps by his spies about Voldemorts doings.

"Yes, I certainly do know that you have seen and done much since leaving us, he said quietly. 'Rumours of your doings have reached your old school, Tom. I should be sorry to believe half of them.' "

Here I think Dumbledore knew what he had been doing and finds it far from greatness.

"You call it greatness", what you have been doing , do you?' asked Dumbledore delicately. Certainly, said Voldemort, and his eyes seemed to burn red. I haved experimented; I have pushed the bounderies of magic further, perhapes, than they have ever been pushed-'

So ultimately I think it was Tom's appearance that convinced Dumbledore that Tom had created a Horcrux or more!
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