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Reference and Trivia from Potter "Look! I think I've got an unaspected planet! Oooh, which one's that, Professor?"

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Old 11-06-2005, 18:15   #11
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Re: Unforgivable Curses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaise
Yah have to go with the concensus that Legilimency isnt hurting or harmful - it is intrusive and can be used to do evil - but you cant actually cause physical harm with it.
As such it isnt considered a unforgivable curse.
It can cause someone mental anguish - look no further than Snape - but that isnt going to kill him - unless it makes him want to take his own life - but that is a choice.
I think the other curses remove that choice and as such places another persons life in anothers hands - as such it is unforgivable to use it.
That makes sense, but only to a point, in that it doesn't quite cover the imperious curse. Yes, AK and Crucio definately harm the person, but the imperious itself does not harm. Yes... you could force someone to harm themselves, or someone else by using it. but you could also use it for good as well. maybe not likely or often though. Maybe it is just that it takes away their free will. Crucio takes away your "free will" by torturing you untill you do what they want, or go insane, and well, AK takes your free will because it kills you!
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Old 13-06-2005, 17:18   #12
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Re: Unforgivable Curses

To be completely controlled by another person is harmful. Look how Mr. Crouch kept his son under his control for all those years. In Barty Jrs case it wasn't a bad thing really, but if you think about it, it's just as bad as the other Curses.

Avada Kedavra: you control the victims right to live or die

Imperius: you control their every thought and action

Cruciatus: pain - could be viewed in the same light as torture - like riping out fingernails or cutting off body parts to get the victim to comply -

There all about complete and total control over another person.
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Old 14-06-2005, 09:01   #13
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Re: Unforgivable Curses

Ok, for those of you who think that reading a person's mind does not lead to total control of a person (which becomes quite harmful to them) here is an article that somewhat explains it. The article uses a poker analogy, but the same could be applied to real life and especially war (vs. Voldemort) situations.

http://www.neo-tech.com/discovery_xz/nt3.html

This is the best article I could find that explained it in the simplest terms (although it is still a bit technical at times) and that didn't completely leave the realm of reality.
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Old 14-06-2005, 19:57   #14
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Re: Unforgivable Curses

I understand what you are saying, Fort, but also, the thing with the imperious, is that it can be fought. Harry fought it off, and I'm really surprised that Barty sr. wasn't able to, Barty jr did eventualy too.
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Old 16-06-2005, 14:00   #15
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Re: Unforgivable Curses

But the basic premise remains I think - you have taken or have the potential to take away someone's independant thoughts or actions - you have taken away choice and you have taken away their humanity to a degree - as such these all look to be unforgivable.
As much as Imperius could be used to help people - isnt it more practicle to get someone to make their own choices rather than enforcing will - no matter the situation if you do this then it is wrong no matter the evenual outcome ...
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Old 17-06-2005, 13:48   #16
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Re: Unforgivable Curses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius Potter Fan
I understand what you are saying, Fort, but also, the thing with the imperious, is that it can be fought. Harry fought it off, and I'm really surprised that Barty sr. wasn't able to, Barty jr did eventualy too.
Fighting the Imperious Curse obviously takes some type of inner control or power. When Moody/Crouch was putting the curse on Harry, Harry noted the feeling that his mind was wiped clean but he was still able to focus on the big picture - that is he mentioned things in his environment and the inner voice of reason that told him not to do what he was being asked to do.

We don't know what the others experienced when under the curse, but Harry seemed to remain half-aware of the things around him. It could have something to do with his character or some inner strength he has that the other students don't have. As for Barty Jr and Sr - they both eventually came out of the curse to some degree, but it's possible that Harry could fight it because he is always the center of attention and is used to looking at the big picture in regards to his surroundings, which helped him to not succumb totally as the others did.
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Old 17-06-2005, 14:23   #17
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Re: Unforgivable Curses

The imperious curse is actually harmful to the person who is under it. Look at what happens to the people fighting it. Harry, being told to jump onto the desk, kept falling and hurting himself. Barty Crouch stumbled through the deadly forest and to me seemed to be in pain. Whilst under it, they are blissfully unaware that they could be harming themselves or others, and apart from any physical injuries they may endure, imagine the mental torture of coming out of it and learning of the things you had done.
I guess this is the difference between the Imperious Curse and Legilimens. Legilimens is probably embarassing to the victim, but if the proper defence is learnt, it really isn't harmful...though if the person doing it doesn't get what they want...I don't even want to think about that...
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Old 28-06-2005, 07:03   #18
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Re: Unforgivable Curses

i hate those curses
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Old 31-12-2005, 09:51   #19
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Re: Unforgivable Curses

I think the reason legilimency isn't an unforgivible curse. . .is because two reasons: 1
1: it can be used for good (DD is an accomplished legilimens) and
2: If one where so inclined, once could protect themselves from it by learning occlumency. Making it completely harmless. Occlumeny doesn't even really involve magic, so Muggles can prtect themselves from it too. And because there is a proper defence for it (not just becoming immune through exposure like the imperious curse.) It can't be considered unforgivable. Because it can be deflected.
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Old 31-12-2005, 11:17   #20
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Re: Unforgivable Curses

Umm - but still this would rely on somene knowing they were being 'read'?
This is the point - it can be considered subversive no?
Sure someone could learn how to block it etc - but still to employ it against someone who doesnt know about it or how to block it would be wrong?
I think human will has a lot to do with this - as in if it effects human will or their choices - it is unforgivable - as such Legilimency is unforgivable!
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
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'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
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