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Character conspiracy theory "Krum attacked Crouch, no-wait for it, then stunned himself!"

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Old 30-10-2005, 09:51   #1
Jessie7888
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Fawkes a Horcrux?

Could Dumbledore have made his own horcrux before his death? In the book, Fawkes leaves the castle after Dumbledore supposedly dies. However,is there also a possibility that Fawkes could be one of Voldemort's horcruxes?
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Old 30-10-2005, 11:05   #2
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Re: Fawkes a Horcrux?

Well there is a couple of reasons that wouldnt fly ..
It is classed as dark magic to create Horcruxes - also Dumbledore took a lot of evidence to actually work out that Voldemort was using them.
And of course - you have to kill - killing rips the soul and you then use a spell (Slughorn didnt know what it was) that then encases the ripped soul.
Of course - you are then suppose to hide it and keep it earthbound and untouched.
So in reality - I dont think Dumbledore would use them - he even banned the subject at Hogwarts.
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Old 31-10-2005, 06:11   #3
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Re: Fawkes a Horcrux?

Dumbledore has always spoken of Harry's power of love being stronger than dark magic. Therefore, it is easy to believe there is a love-magic equivalent of a Horcrux, and that Dumbledore has one in place. I also believe that Fawkes will play a role in bringing that Horcrux to life. Besides, Dumbledor isn't pure, I'm sure he has killed many Deatheaters in the past. Just because it's murder for the good guys, doesn't remove the fact that it is murder.
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Old 31-10-2005, 10:57   #4
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Re: Fawkes a Horcrux?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vold. E. Mort
Dumbledore has always spoken of Harry's power of love being stronger than dark magic. Therefore, it is easy to believe there is a love-magic equivalent of a Horcrux, and that Dumbledore has one in place. I also believe that Fawkes will play a role in bringing that Horcrux to life. Besides, Dumbledor isn't pure, I'm sure he has killed many Deatheaters in the past. Just because it's murder for the good guys, doesn't remove the fact that it is murder.
Partially agree - that last point at least.
I'm not sure it is ever said that Dumbledore has killed anyone?
Sure you could say he sent people to their deaths under his command and power - but directly killed anyone?
You may refer to him 'Vanquishing' Grindelwald - well if that is your case - then let's remember the word vanquish is very open.
Dumbledore had no fear of death - it was the next great adventure to him - he went from the world without any reservations - I think the idea of employing something similar to Voldemort would be akin as being as bad as him ... why would he make such a big thing of there is nothing to be feared from death if he was sitting on his own Horcrux - like hypocrite much?
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'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
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'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 01-11-2005, 05:44   #5
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Re: Fawkes a Horcrux?

Fearing death and realizing there is more work to be done after you are gone are two distintly different situations. I think this death was a pre-arranged encounter for Albus and Snape, to bolster Snape's credability with Voldemort, both knowing full well his return was already prepared.

As for him never murdering directly, I think we are left to assume he has due to the fact that it was pretty much open warfare with the Death Eaters in Voldemort's prime.. To think Dumbledore, the apparent thin white line between Voldemort and victory, has never killed directly is naive.. However, after thinking about it, I refuse to believe the love-magic equivalent of a Horcurx would require bloodshed. Instead, I think it would require a sacrifice of one's self, and in saving Harry from sharing his fate, that sacrifice was given freely. The ultimate love of another is giving your own life to save them. Dumbledore will indeed live again, and the books will end with Snape standing side by side with Harry, smiling, finally free of the act of Death Eater.
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Old 01-11-2005, 06:39   #6
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Re: Fawkes a Horcrux?

I don't believe that Dumbledore made a horcrux. As someone else pointed out earlier, that's dark magic. Also, I think one needs to kill with deliberate intent (murder) -- in order to split one's soul. I don't think that killing a death eater during an encounter would qualify as murder but more as self-defense or as by-product of war. So granting that Dumbledore may have killed a death eater in the past, I don't think he created the conditions for splitting his soul. I also think that it does not seem to be consistent with his character for him to preserve himself in a physical form just like Voldermort. What purpose would it serve him? He saw death as the next great adventure. Why should he want to stop himself from experiencing that?

With respect to the theory on unfinished work, I believe that if he were really thinking of finishing the work that he started, he probably would have done it in a more conventional way -- like preparing a successor or preparing Harry -- the Chosen One (which was what was done in HBP). As for communicating after death, I think that his portrait hanging in the headmaster's/headmistress office would be a sufficient means of communication with the wizarding community -- at least through the headmistress.
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Old 01-11-2005, 07:05   #7
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Re: Fawkes a Horcrux?

However, after thinking about it, I refuse to believe the love-magic equivalent of a Horcurx would require bloodshed. Instead, I think it would require a sacrifice of one's self, and in saving Harry from sharing his fate, that sacrifice was given freely. The ultimate love of another is giving your own life to save them.

Voldemort's Horcruxes are in place for his own selfish purposes, out of fear of death. The kind I'm talking about would instead be of the selfless type, realizing that finishing his work with Harry is more important than whatever adventure the next life holds.

Last edited by Alz; 02-11-2005 at 14:09..
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Old 01-11-2005, 12:36   #8
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Re: Fawkes a Horcrux?

I personally see no merit in Dumbledore emulating his foe in creating mechanisms for defeating death. This whole series of books has been about Voldemort trying to cheat the shameful human death - the steps he took - how far he went - it was all about defeating death.
For Dumbledore to be opposed and also setting example to Harry that death should hold no fear - then go ahead and pretty much do what Voldemort does - isnt that going to confuse Harry no end?
It is simple - in order for the story to progress, Dumbledore had to be removed from the picture.
Dumbledore would always protect Harry - Dumbledore is the only one Voldemort ever feared - so how would Harry and Voldemort ever meet in the big showdown if you had Dumbledore hanging around?
Dumbledore had to be removed from the picture so that Harry can finally face Voldemort on his own - and in his death he left Harry with all the tools to do the job - plus a huge amount of knowledge about Riddle/Voldemort.
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895

Last edited by Alz; 02-11-2005 at 14:09..
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Old 27-07-2006, 18:21   #9
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Fawks is a Horcrux

This is just somethin I've been thinking about for a while. Does anyone remember what happened to GrindleWald when Dumbledore defeated him? Well, what if Dumbledore killed him and, ashamed of what he did, he put his horcrux in his pheonix. And when he died, that's why Fawks left, it was really dumbledore lamenting how all his trust in Snape was unfounded. I'm still kind of developing this thoery, what do you all think?
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Old 29-07-2006, 01:17   #10
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Re: Fawks is a Horcrux

Couple of things here ...

Defeated - well that has always been a word that caused debate - did he kill Grindelwald or did he do something else - because all we know is that he defeated him. I'm not saying it is beyond Dumbledore to kill given the right motivation - but look at the way he spoke to Voldemort - ''Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..''
This is pretty cold I think but shows Dumbledore isn't into killing as such - he wants to do more and is capable of this - which is why I love the word defeated so much - because many assume that means Dumbledore dispatched him ... I wonder otherwise.

But if Dumbledore had killed Grindelwald - I'm not sure he would feel any guilt - he is all about the bigger picture and Grindelwald was a Dark Lord - so taking him out was what he needed to do and one way or another he did it.
I really am not a fan of Dumbledore creating a Horcrux - but on the off chance would he seal it with the slaughter of a Dark Lord - given I still feel some remains of the person you killed remains in the piece of soul you seal in the object.
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'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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