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Character conspiracy theory "Krum attacked Crouch, no-wait for it, then stunned himself!"

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Old 22-01-2007, 06:26   #1
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Wormtail's plan?

OK, this is a bit of a wild spec, but just a thought that crosed my mind and i thought I might just put it out there to toss around a bit.

What if . . . Wormtail had a crush on Lily? He wanted James out of the way so he could have her. We know he went to Voldemort to betray the Potters, but what if it were him that asked Voldemort to give Lily a chance to live? He lays the blame on Sirius, is there to "comfort" poor Lily . . . maybe slip in a little love potion . . .

thoughts?
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Old 22-01-2007, 08:03   #2
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Re: Wormtail's plan?

I think that you have to ask, "Would Lily have known about the change of secret keeper?" My guess is that she would have and would therefore have known that it would have been Wormtail who betrayed them resulting in the murder of her son. I think it would take a braver man than Wormtail to turn up, in those circumstances, to comfort Lily.
However, it would seem likely that Lily was kinder to Wormtail than either James, Sirius or Lupin would have been so he may have had feelings toward her and made the request of Voldemort.
I am in the process of putting together my ideas around the complicity of Dumbledore in the events preceding the Potter murders and after.
The diary Tom Riddle says "So. Your mother died to save you. Yes, that's a powerful countercharm. I can see now ..."
If there was one person that I would expect to know about this old magic it would be Dumbledore. So his task would be to ensure that some how Lily was offered the chance to live. Dumbledore would know that no mother would stand aside and see her child die and therefore give Harry the protection that saved him. Whether Dumbledore worked through Snape or Wormtail I do not know, I suspect Snape but hadn't really given Wormtail much of a thought.
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Old 22-01-2007, 08:17   #3
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Re: Wormtail's plan?

This is all getting so complex, will it all make sense in the final book, especially for the younger readers? ...
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Old 22-01-2007, 14:25   #4
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Re: Wormtail's plan?

I think the younger readers, like my 9 yo daughter will still enjoy the story for what it is on their level. She does not "theorize" with me, and when I talk about my speculation she just looks at me like . . . "it's a cool book mom, but get a life!" I think the continuity in the plotline that keeps us guessing and digging is due to the fact that JKR had her plot for the entire series before she wrote the very first page.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius Black PoA
"Harry... I as good as killed them," he croaked. "I persuaded Lily and James to change to Peter at the last moment, persuaded them to use him as Secret-Keeper instead of me.... I'm to blame, I know it....


I don't know if DD would have used Wormtail . . . He seems to understand people to well to trust him. OH well . . . thought I had a good idea anyway!
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Last edited by Sirius Potter Fan; 22-01-2007 at 14:30..
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Old 19-02-2007, 18:31   #5
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Re: Wormtail's plan?

Interesting premise there SPF ...

What is most prominant and somewhat agreed is that someone asked Voldemort to spare Lily - and that would suggest there was some fondness or attachment to her.
Many of us think it is Snape - but would be a nice little twist if it turned out to be Wormtail.
Although - not sure that guy had much fondness for anything other than proving he was as good as the rest of the maurauders - in his case at the expense of them.
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Old 19-02-2007, 20:54   #6
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Re: Wormtail's plan?

Glad to see you back Alz

I am going to put a twist on this. I think that someone, and I think it was Snape too, probably felt reasonable assured that the Dark Lord would spare Lily. As a favor.

But I think back to what Dumbledore said, about how Voldermort never had a friend or ever wanted one, and think that Voldermort was planning to really torture the heck out of Lily if she had stepped aside and allowed him to just kill Harry. It would have releived some of his own frustrations about his own mother not using Magic to save herself to be around for him, and would have reminded perhaps more than one of his Death Eaters that he was the Master.

And I do not for a second think that Voldermort ever dreamed that Lily would fight to the death for Harry. I think he fully expected that she would step aside just as she was given the choice to have done. Because after all, his own mother seemed to have shown no love for him whatsoever.
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Old 21-02-2007, 06:50   #7
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Re: Wormtail's plan?

You know Piper, you have some interesting ideas there. I don't think many if any of us have previously considered that Voldemort had offered to spare Lily of his own accord. We think surely someone had to promise him something in exchange for her life . . . but what if as you said, he offered her her life as a test. Were all mother's like his? Would this mother show "love" for her child? If that were the case it was a dead end situation, well, . . . no could'nt have been. I thought that if she had let him kill Harry that he would have then tortured her then killed her for being like his mother, but he may have just tortured her till she was insane like the Longbottoms, but . . . did seeing that she truly did have love for Harry affect him? Probably made him hate his own mother more . . .
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Old 21-02-2007, 07:36   #8
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Re: Wormtail's plan?

As far as Voldermort was concerned, he assumed as a child that his mother could not have been magical because she died, so when he found out that she did in fact have powers, it's reasonable to assume that he basically considered her death a suicide.

Whatever Voldermorts reasons untimately were with Lily, I think that Dumbledore insured that something was done to get the idea of letting Lily live into Voldermorts Head, and I think that there would have had to have been something in it for Voldermort. Maybe Dumbledore had Snape or Wormtail suggest that if Lily were not killed, she would make excellent bait, for catching Sirius Black or Remus Lupin for instance. Reverse psychology there, knowing that such a test of a mother would appeal greatly to Voldermort too.

But it just hit me, if Spape had this relationship with Lily, if he knew anything at all of her, he would have known that she would fight to the death for Harry, I think Wormtail would have known as well. So Dumbledore would have had to have chosen the one least likely to really love her for this request.
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Old 06-03-2007, 19:57   #9
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Re: Wormtail's plan?

SPF you make an excellent point! ive always been attracted to the characetr analysis side of HP cause its sooo interesting and i think your spot on. Though im sure lily was a greatly well liked person i doubt voldemort would care enough about what other people wanted if it in any way distracted from his plan, im sure voldemort researched his mother enough to realise she didnt try and stay alive for him so i think it would be very likely he would want to know if all mothers were like this
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