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Character conspiracy theory "Krum attacked Crouch, no-wait for it, then stunned himself!"

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Old 23-11-2004, 19:24   #11
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Re: Percy: The Spy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissWhizbee
Kings, you bring up a good point about the bravery. Percy's actions in GoF really seem like that of a slytherin don't they? They will do whatever it takes to get to the top...never thought about that, but we know that Percy definately isn't a slytherin, so what in his actions could be construed to be like a gryffindor's, nothing unless it turns out to be as WFF suggests. I think that is one more compelling argument for this theory.

I totally agree here MW! Percy would not have been put into Gryffindor if he wasn't supposed to be there, and the qualities looked for in a Gryffindor are: Bravery, nerve, daring, chivalry, boldness, etc... If Percy really were acting at face value in OotP, he would not have been showing these qualities. If he, however, were being a spy, then he would have been showing quite a few of them. It takes bravery, nerve, daring, and all the others to be a spy 24/7. I think that this really adds to my theory
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Old 24-11-2004, 15:19   #12
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Re: Percy: The Spy?

...and Pettigrew was in Gryffindor and his charms were just the personification of a Gryffindor right?

Selection may look deep - but I dont think it can see the future ... it see's the mind realtime - a such Peter was a good gryffindor at the time - as might have been Percy
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Old 24-11-2004, 15:28   #13
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Re: Percy: The Spy?

Awe, you see I was thinking that very same thing about Pettirgrew, but I also was thinking that what Pettrigrew did by betraying Lily & James could be construed to be brave, have nerve, and show daring, in that he was totally defying Dumbledore, who was a very powerful wizard, in order to get in the good graces of the Dark Lord. Now, it isn't a good thing which he did, but it was brave in that he did it regardless of the costs he might have to pay if he were found out. And those costs were high. Seems like although he was not righteous, he was certainly brave and daring (expecially in the eyes of the DEs).
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Old 25-11-2004, 13:01   #14
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Re: Percy: The Spy?

You see once again my great friend - I disagree!

Pettigrew showed the best Slytherin trait - Ambition and ruthlesness in doing so - I think his actions were more Slytherin that Gryffindor ...

I still believe the hat doesnt have the gift of a seer - as in it can only reflect on the past events and history - and also look into a persons head ... and only see the person at the time ...
You have to admit it is more consistant given what we have seen with Peter that is seems the hat is a realtime monitor of students ... pre making all the choices that will shape them in the future and perhaps lead to a student displaying traits associated better with another house ... back to the great JKR point - it is all about choices
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'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
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Old 04-12-2004, 21:04   #15
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Re: Percy: The Spy?

Although I am not entirely sure what the hat is, I don't think it is a seer. I think that if it were, it would have in fact placed Peter in Slytherin. I would have to think that it only has the sense to look into a childs head and assume what it would do in certain circumstances. It does say that the Founders put brains into the Hat, so I am going to assume that it just guesses from what it sees inside the childs head what they would do, perhaps it has it's own test that it puts the children through, while going through their mind...
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Old 05-12-2004, 06:13   #16
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Re: Percy: The Spy?

The criteria and scoring that the hat uses to gauge a student has to be somewhat artificial and maybe generic ...
What the hat will see might not be what the person will ultimately become - it is a frame of mind at the time - a reflection of the persons past that shaped them to date.

In Percy's mind he was always a stickler for the rules - I suppose almost righteous etc.
I don't think that hat got it wrong for Percy at the time ...

If the hat was re-introduced onto Students in the last year of school I wonder how many people would still be in the same house?
All those choices that defined and shaped them for the future now apparent ...
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'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 08-12-2004, 10:37   #17
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Re: Percy: The Spy?

I still dont think the hat got it wrong for Percy even with current times
Another thing I just read hit me for this theory of Percy being a spy
Bill at the end of book 4 said he would talk to Arthur about what is needed of him from Dumbledore
I think Bill possibly could have been in on the talk to Arthur and Percy about Percy's upcoming act--he is Percy's older brother and maybe had a better link with him than the others
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Old 08-12-2004, 22:04   #18
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Re: Percy: The Spy?

I found this really interesting, especially after reading the exact quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoF
"Then I need to send a message to Arthur," said Dumbledore. "All those that we can persuade of the truth must be notified immediately, and he is well placed to contact those at the Ministry who are not as shortsighted as Cornelius."
"I'll go to Dad," said Bill, standing up. "I'll go now."
"Excellent," said Dumbledore. "Tell him what has happened. Tell him I will be in direct contact with him shortly. He will need to be discreet, however. If Fudge thinks I am interfering at the Ministry -"
"Leave it to me," said Bill.
I am not sure here, but I wonder if the "contact those at the Ministry who are not as shortsighted as Cornelius" could have been a reference to Percy... While I don't think it is likely that Bill knew what Dumbledore was going to contact Arthur about before he left, I think there is a good chance that he knew soon after, as I am assuming that he was there when Dumbledore called on his father. Also, I think that it's a good chance that if Percy was a spy, Bill and/or Charlie would know about it. We never heard either of the two say anything bad about Percy (that I can recall) in OotP, but that may have just because one of them wasn't around at all, and the other, very little. Although I don't think Molly would know, I think that Bill might. He seems mevel-headed, and I think he would be able to deal with the information easiest...
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Old 09-12-2004, 13:34   #19
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Re: Percy: The Spy?

It's an interesting quote ....
But you have to remeber all the auror's seem to be there on Dumbledore's side - and many are in the order ...
I think it was equally as relevant that he could have been calling all the people he knew in the MoM to help out ..
I dont know - I just dont see Percy as the spy turned hero - he just seems too much of a cretin ...
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 09-12-2004, 22:55   #20
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Re: Percy: The Spy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaise
It's an interesting quote ....
But you have to remeber all the auror's seem to be there on Dumbledore's side - and many are in the order ...
I think it was equally as relevant that he could have been calling all the people he knew in the MoM to help out ..
I dont know - I just dont see Percy as the spy turned hero - he just seems too much of a cretin ...
Actually there are only 2 aurors that we kow of in the Order, Kigsley and Tonks. All the other Auror's mentioned in OotP (Dawlish was present for Dumbledore's escape as well as Hagrids. There were four other aurors present when Hagrid escaped as well, but they were not named. The only other auror mentioned in OotP is Scrimgeour, who had been asking Tonks and Kingsley funny questions).

And the part about Percy being a cretin is the beauty of it. No one, not even his own family would think that he is a spy, and that is why there is a possibility of him being one. It would be like the Sirius changing the secret keeper to Peter" bluff, except for that this time it worked.

I agree that for the most part Percy was a pompous, know-it-all, wannabe. I don't disagree with that, but I think that it is possible that when he found out about Voldemort's return, he thought about more then himself. Sometimes, dangerous situations bring out the best in people, and I think that there is a possibility that this could be the one that changed Percy....
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