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HBP Character Discussion Any facts or details from HBP on new and old characters

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Old 18-07-2005, 11:58   #1
Padma Patil
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Question Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

Ok, from the very first book, everybody has had their own opinion about Snape. Most of them bad. But in HBP, we see that Snape kills Dumbledore and runs off with Draco Malfoy. I'm gonna assume that pretty much everybody who has read this part is thinking that 'Wow! He was a Death Eater after all!'. But, if you go back to the begining of the book, Snape made an unbreakable vow to kill Dumbledore, that was Malfoy's mission and Snape agreed to carry it out. (Though if you ask me he should have died for Dumbledore instead. )
Also, Snape was the one who gave Dumbledore the ring. Voldemort's ring, one of the horcruxes that Snape allowed Dumbledore to destroy.

So, my question as stated in the title is...

Whose side is Snape really on?
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Old 18-07-2005, 14:04   #2
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Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

I have just finished reading the book and totaly agree snape should have died than kill dumbledore, I expected snape to be on both side transfering infomation to dumbledore which i thought voldemort wouldn't have known.
I didn't expect dumbledore to die in this book , i expected it in book seven.
But i still don't know how dumbledore would really trust him, dumbledore was wize & too clever for that
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Old 18-07-2005, 14:28   #3
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Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

after making the unbereakable vow with narcissa malfoy, snape couldnt really have gone back on his word or it would have meant death for him to break it... as soon as i had read this in the opening chapter i knew that snape had changed and all our evil beliefs about him had been true... although i didnt want to belive it until it had happened... poor dumbledore...

all i want to know now is who has harry got left in the world - he has had the only "father" figures/role models taken away from him in the war of the wizards.... first his real parents... then sirius now dumbledore.. how this will leave book 7 i do not know...

harry said he wont return to hogwarts for his 7th and final year.. what will book 7 in turn ba about then!? will he return to school and leave early on a dark mission or just not go on the 1st of september and seek out the other horcuxes...??

we only have to wait TWO YEARS to find out!!

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Old 18-07-2005, 14:29   #4
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Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

I think Snape had no choice but to kill Dumbledore, he had to otherwise he would be dead, it was part of the Unbreakable Vow spell.

In Spinners End (how wrong were we? ) Snape is cornered into making the Unbreakable Vow. When Narcissa asks him, his face is blank but I think inside he is panicking and has no choice but to make the vow so that he shows he is on the side of Voldemort.

Voldemort has given him Wormtail as an assistant, its more likely he is a spy for Voldemort. Wormtail is naturally a tattle tail and will want to make Voldemort pleased with him anyway, but I think Voldemort sent him there because he has reservations about Snape.

Now did Snape tell Dumbledore about this Unbreakable Vow? Its very possible, Dumbledore stopped being secretive with Harry and in fact took a different sort of tactic all together. He actually gave Harry lessons and set Harry homework - a very difficult task of getting a certain memory from a Professor.

Dumbledore then took Harry to the cave to obtain one of the Horcruxes, I think this was so that Harry would have prior knowledge of what to look for and what he would be up against. This could all be because Dumbledore knew he would be killed by Snape or Malfoy. There was no choice if Snape wanted to live.
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Old 18-07-2005, 14:42   #5
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Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

Wow! snape, snape , snape.... I honestly think that he is playing the part on both sides. He has to make vows to both Dumdledore and Voldemort to show he is on there side. So I think even though this is weird for my to say is he is on Dumbledores side. Dumbledore knows the risk Snape is taking on giving information to both sides. And for snape to kill Dumbledore so easy I don't think so I think Dumbledore new about the unbreakable vow that snape did and faked it. I mean after dueling with Voldemort and didn't get killed. Plus remember Harry said the dumbledore has used magic with out his wand... so he is ok and snape is on the good side.
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Old 18-07-2005, 18:57   #6
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Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Padma Patil
Also, Snape was the one who gave Dumbledore the ring. Voldemort's ring, one of the horcruxes that Snape allowed Dumbledore to destroy.
Um - I don't think Snape was the one who gave Dumbledore the ring. Dumbledore returned to the Gaunt's little shack and found it hidden in the ruins (and protected by many enchantments). Snape fits into the picture because Dumbledore says he returned back to Hogwarts extremely injured and if it weren't for Snape he probably would have died..

.. course he did anyway - stupid git..

As far as who's side Snape is on, I'm going to have to say I agree with Gini and Angel - Once again, I think that he killed Dumbledore because he couldn't break the Unbreakable Vow he made with Narcissa..
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Old 19-07-2005, 04:59   #7
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Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

Yep, me too. I think it was planned- well, spoken about at least! Dumbledore was told about the Unbreakable Vow and instructed Snape to do what was nessesary. I think Snape is good. He killed Dumbledore so Malfoy wouldn't have to- therefore saving his innocence.
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Old 19-07-2005, 05:10   #8
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Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

I have to say that I'm not buying into the whole Snape-Is-Evil thing. This is for a lot of reasons, but I'll try to list them.

First of all - it seems to be suggested that Dumbledore's reason for trusting Snape is that he confessed to him that he had told Voldemort about what he'd heard of the Prophecy. Now, Dumbledore may have been a trusting person, but not quite that trusting - the fact that Snape told Voldemort goes more or less without saying, considering the events that followed. (But this is putting me even more onto the whole Dumbledore-May-Not-Have-Been-Evil-But-He-Sure-Was-A-Scheming-Manipulative-B***** - if Dumbledore knew that Voldemort knew, and didn't take steps to protect the families, just because he knew that Voldemort would unwittingly create his own worst enemy - that wouldn't be a nice thing to do. Not even for the cause. But that's completely besides the point.) Anyways - the reason's not good enough. There's still something we don't know.

Second of all - Dumbledore sort of pleaded with Snape before he was killed (I believe the exact words were - "Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face. 'Severus ... please ...'" (HBP, p. 556)) But we don't know what exactly he's pleading for. The obvious guess would be his life - but that's obvious, isn't it? I rather like to think that Dumbledore is pleading for his death, and the "revulsion and hatred" evident in Snape's face is not for Dumbledore, but for himself (I honestly think that Snape hates nothing as much as himself). So basically, I think that Snape is doing what has to be done - what Dumbledore has asked him to do (and what he can't avoid doing, because of the Unbreakable Vow - which I got the distinct impression that Dumbledore knew about). But the bottom line here is - I don't think that Dumbledore would go around begging for his life (does, "he doesn't seem the type", work as an argument here?), so I don't think that was what he was begging Snape to do.

I'm sure there were more reasons, but most of them probably just come down to something like, "MY BYRONIC HERO AIN'T EVIL!" - so I think I'll spare you.
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Old 19-07-2005, 05:47   #9
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Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

what is it with u people? before when dumbledore was still alive everyone was convinced that snape was evil, now that snape has killed dumbledore and run off with the death eaters u're trying to find reasons to make him look better!

snape is a mad man! he's been playing a double angent from the start - in the perfect position, because whoever won snape would still be considered to be 'good'! he tricked dumbledore by playing on his weekness - that dumbledore always had to believ the best in people, and then he killed him!

snape is evil and i hope he is murdered in the next bhook in all the evil ways u can think of!!!!
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Old 19-07-2005, 13:45   #10
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Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan
I have to say that I'm not buying into the whole Snape-Is-Evil thing. This is for a lot of reasons, but I'll try to list them.

First of all - it seems to be suggested that Dumbledore's reason for trusting Snape is that he confessed to him that he had told Voldemort about what he'd heard of the Prophecy. Now, Dumbledore may have been a trusting person, but not quite that trusting - the fact that Snape told Voldemort goes more or less without saying, considering the events that followed. (But this is putting me even more onto the whole Dumbledore-May-Not-Have-Been-Evil-But-He-Sure-Was-A-Scheming-Manipulative-B***** - if Dumbledore knew that Voldemort knew, and didn't take steps to protect the families, just because he knew that Voldemort would unwittingly create his own worst enemy - that wouldn't be a nice thing to do. Not even for the cause. But that's completely besides the point.) Anyways - the reason's not good enough. There's still something we don't know.

Second of all - Dumbledore sort of pleaded with Snape before he was killed (I believe the exact words were - "Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face. 'Severus ... please ...'" (HBP, p. 556)) But we don't know what exactly he's pleading for. The obvious guess would be his life - but that's obvious, isn't it? I rather like to think that Dumbledore is pleading for his death, and the "revulsion and hatred" evident in Snape's face is not for Dumbledore, but for himself (I honestly think that Snape hates nothing as much as himself). So basically, I think that Snape is doing what has to be done - what Dumbledore has asked him to do (and what he can't avoid doing, because of the Unbreakable Vow - which I got the distinct impression that Dumbledore knew about). But the bottom line here is - I don't think that Dumbledore would go around begging for his life (does, "he doesn't seem the type", work as an argument here?), so I don't think that was what he was begging Snape to do.

I'm sure there were more reasons, but most of them probably just come down to something like, "MY BYRONIC HERO AIN'T EVIL!" - so I think I'll spare you.
Applauds with big claps!!

Also as noted elsewhere - when Harry called Snape as coward - you just look at the way he reacts ...
What he did took a lot of courage and would have been truly awful to have to do - he respected Dumbledore - and for Snape who seems to loath most things and people that is a real telling factor ...
The dilemma has always been there - just look through the threads on this site - everyone is split on occasions as to Snape's motivations - and JKR has played that
to the maximum - we are all left with a decision to make - is he or isn't he ... don't go looking at the books to answer it because Snape blows hot and cold and has done for all 6 books!
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