Left Page Border
Makes the header linkable

Go Back   The Final Horcrux > Discussions on Half-Blood Prince > HBP Character Discussion

HBP Character Discussion Any facts or details from HBP on new and old characters

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 19-07-2005, 14:23   #11
Sirius Potter Fan
Night Patroll
 
Sirius Potter Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK USA
Age: 53
Posts: 1,690
Rep Power: 15Sirius Potter Fan is on a distinguished road

Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

I have been battling this in my head for several hours now I have to say though when Snape took the vow, first his face went blank, but then, when Belatrix got the the third part of the charm, asking (something like) "If Draco fails will you finish the job for him" Snape actualy hesitates, I'm shure, considering his options, and feels that there is none. We also see him and Draco at odds. We see it on the surface as Snape being impatient at Malfoy's feeble attempts, but, what if in actuality Snape was trying to buy time all along to give Dumbledore time to locate more of the horcruxes. I believe that Snape did inform Dumbledore of the unbreakable vow, hence this explains why Dumbledore seemed unconcerned when Harry would tell him about Draco's actions. On the astromony tower, I think Snape had the look of disgust, because he loathed what he had to do, not necessarily "himself" as Fin said. I think when discussing the vow, Dumbledore and Snape came to an agreement as to what would happen if it came down to it. Also notice, While running to the gates, Snape deflected Harry's spells, but not only didn't try to kill Harry, but didn't even attempt to harm him. Yes, he tells the other DE that Harry was the Dark Lord's to kill. well, if he was truly on the DE's side why not incompacitate Harry and bring him to Voldemort?
__________________
Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
His memory will live on . . .




There is no place I know to compare with pure imagination; living there you'll be free, if you truly wish to be.
_Willy Wonka

Murphy's Law: "Whatever can go wrong, will."

Mad-eye Moody's Law: "Murphy was an optimist!"
Sirius Potter Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2005, 15:37   #12
Fortescue
Totally Potterfied!
 
Fortescue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The wall next to Dumbledore . . .
Posts: 1,518
Rep Power: 15Fortescue will become famous soon enough

Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

Ok, directly from JKR's mouth - this is from the interview that Emerson and Melissa - from other sites had with JKR last week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interview JKR
MA: OK, big big big book six question. Is Snape evil?

JKR: [Almost laughing] Well, you've read the book, what do you think?

ES: She's trying to make you say it categorically.

MA: Well, there are conspiracy theorists, and there are people who will claim -

JKR: Cling to some desperate hope [laughter] -
ES: Yes!

MA: Yes!

ES: Like certain shippers we know!

[All laugh]

JKR: Well, okay, I'm obviously Harry-Snape is now as personal, if not more so, than Harry-Voldemort. I can't answer that question because it's a spoiler, isn't it, whatever I say, and obviously, it has such a huge impact on what will happen when they meet again that I can't. And let's face it, it's going to launch 10,000 theories and I'm going to get a big kick out of reading them so [laughs] I'm evil but I just like the theories, I love the theories.
As always - not much information there, but I think he's on Voldemort's side. Seems she was sort of hinting that way. Clinging to some desparate hope, along with her previous statement in an interview that we shouldn't think Snape is too nice.....


There also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horcruxes
"By an act of evil - the supreme act of evil. By committing murder. Killing rips the soul apart. The wizard intent upon creating a Horcrux would use the damage to his advantage: He would encase the torn portion - "


So basically, what this said is that even if Snape had never killed anyone before during his time as a Death Eater, he has now killed Dumbledore, therefore his soul has been split. If he wasn't evil before - he is now. The more I read into this the more I say it wasn't a set up and Dumbledore did trust Snape when he shouldn't have.
__________________
What did I care if numbers of nameless and faceless people and creatures were slaughtered in the vague future, if in the here and now you were alive, and well, and happy?
Albus Dumbledore



"I miss having you in my classes, Harry, you were never much of a Seer . . . but you were a wonderful Object . . . "
Sybil Trelawney
Fortescue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2005, 17:21   #13
Sirius Potter Fan
Night Patroll
 
Sirius Potter Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK USA
Age: 53
Posts: 1,690
Rep Power: 15Sirius Potter Fan is on a distinguished road

Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

OK, then how do you explain, that with as good a ligilimens as Snape is, that when he was on top of the astronomy tower, that he didn't reveal Harry under the cloak? He certainly should have been able to read him, and notice the other broom. I think Snape did the only thing he could have done in the position he was put in. Snape had to take the vow, and had to fulfillit to stay alive. I'm certain that Snape and Dumbledore had discussed it, and decided that it would be better for the order if Snape went back to Voldemort, and still leaked the occasional plans to the order. Whereas if Snape were dead, the order would have no further knowledge of Voldemort's plans. And as I said before, Yes, Voldemort wanted to kill Harry himself, but that doesn't mean that he wouldn'g have apreciated a good little death eater bring his prey directly to him unharmed!
__________________
Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
His memory will live on . . .




There is no place I know to compare with pure imagination; living there you'll be free, if you truly wish to be.
_Willy Wonka

Murphy's Law: "Whatever can go wrong, will."

Mad-eye Moody's Law: "Murphy was an optimist!"
Sirius Potter Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2005, 20:07   #14
mimbulus mimbletonia
Mature Graduates
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Age: 45
Posts: 69
Rep Power: 15mimbulus mimbletonia is on a distinguished road

Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

I wondered as well about Snape not knowing Harry was under the cloak, but then I realised Harry has eluded Snape many times before in that manner.

To perform Legilimens you need to concentrate upon a particular person - it's not like he's just picking up thoughts from every one present.
__________________
mim
mimbulus mimbletonia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2005, 05:32   #15
Fortescue
Totally Potterfied!
 
Fortescue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The wall next to Dumbledore . . .
Posts: 1,518
Rep Power: 15Fortescue will become famous soon enough

Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

I agree with Mim - Snape would have had to look Harry in the eye to know what he was thinking - Harry being invisible at the time made that impossible.

I think the evidence shows that he is evil - the only thing that would make me think that he is not is the fact that he didn't kill Harry in front of Hagrid's cabin. Unless Voldemort has another reason he needs Harry alive, that just didn't make sense.

Dumbledore knew what killing does to the soul - if Snape was on Dumbledore's side, and Dumbledore had planned for Snape to kill him, that means Dumbledore was alright with Snape splitting his soul? If Snape had not killed before, then what he did by killing Dumbledore made him evil - so either way, he's evil!!
__________________
What did I care if numbers of nameless and faceless people and creatures were slaughtered in the vague future, if in the here and now you were alive, and well, and happy?
Albus Dumbledore



"I miss having you in my classes, Harry, you were never much of a Seer . . . but you were a wonderful Object . . . "
Sybil Trelawney
Fortescue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2005, 07:50   #16
Boing
Pops in randomly
 
Boing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Americas
Posts: 2,268
Rep Power: 17Boing will become famous soon enough

Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

Then by that measure, you think anyone else who killed a DE when they were fighting against them is evil too? Like members of the Order? What about Dumbledore's defeat of Grindelwald? If "defeat" means, "killed/destroyed", does that mean Dumbledore was evil from that point on? Nope, doesn't fly with me.

I think the key in the quote you had was that it was "murder" that is the supreme act of evil. If Snape was in fact asked by Dumbledore to kill him, then is it really murder? Now you get into a mess of ethical and semantical (is that a word?!) debates over what constitutes murder. But I think that Snape isn't necessarily evil just by performing AK on Dumbledore - we don't actually know if he was doing it in cold blood or if it was upon request by Dumbledore himself.

As for JKR's quote, I read the "clinging to some desperate hope" as a joke. I mean, she knows how she has portrayed him and she knows what she wants us all to think. But she also knows that there are small clues in there that point to his perhaps not being as bad as we might be led to believe. I think she just knows that people out there are trying to figure it out and, as she has read a lot of the theories (and probably gets loads of questions about it), she knows people are clinging to that one shred of evidence or one last hope.
__________________
BOING!

Peskipiksi Pesternomi!
Boing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2005, 08:07   #17
Weasleyfanforever
TFH Graduate
 
Weasleyfanforever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: MN
Age: 33
Posts: 1,320
Rep Power: 16Weasleyfanforever will become famous soon enough

Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horcruxes
"By an act of evil - the supreme act of evil. By committing murder. Killing rips the soul apart. The wizard intent upon creating a Horcrux would use the damage to his advantage: He would encase the torn portion - "
Notice that it doesn't say that only murder rips the soul apart, it says that killing rips the soul apart. There is a difference between murder and killing, there is self-defence, unintentional homicide, etc. I took this to mean that the trauma of killing someone else rips you in half, once you realise the immensity of what has happened.

So, my point is, that just because you kill someone, doesn't mean that your evil. Snape is not evil, if the only evidence being used is that he killed someone.
__________________
Frodo Failed.
Bush Has The Ring.
Weasleyfanforever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2005, 13:26   #18
Alz
Head Unspeakable
 
Alz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast US, originally UK!!
Age: 44
Posts: 7,108
Rep Power: 10Alz is on a distinguished road

Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

JKR could have easily said no in that quote - she didn't
Also - this is from the same person that said the death in book 6 wouldn't be too much of a big deal ... Since when have we started to take JKR literally and at her word?
She is capable and does say yes and no - if she doesn't - look at it as avoidance ...

Consider it an 'assisted suicide' or even manslaughter - but it wasn't murder - murder is defined as pre-meditated ... I don't think Snape planned to be up there and killing Dumbledore ...
__________________
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
Alz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2005, 10:00   #19
Padma Patil
Dumbledore's Girl
 
Padma Patil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South East Minnesota
Age: 31
Posts: 440
Rep Power: 14Padma Patil is on a distinguished road

Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

Ok, here is my view of what happened and what is going to happen...

Snape made an unbreakable vow with Narcissa to kill Dumbledore should Draco fail. He had to carry out that vow or else it meant death for him. Snape told Dumbledore about this and Dumbledore has been preparing Harry all year to live with out him, to hunt down the horcruxes and destroy them. Snape, didn't plan to kill Dumbledore, but had to, Dumbledore was pleading not for life, but for death. Snape did not bring Harry to Voldemort, he didn't even hurt him, he just deflected his spells and continued on.

Future...

Snape is going to come back to the Order and try to explain what happened. Naturally this is not going to go over well considering that Harry wants to kill him as well as many other members of the Order. By end of 7th book, Snape will have convinced Order he is loyal to them and will betray Voldemort.

Ok ran out of things. Lost my train of thought.

What do you think?
__________________
My Wand ~ Made of Hickory, 13 1/4" long, with a Billywig Stinger core...

"Look . . . at . . . me. . . ." he whispered.
- Severus Snape
DH pg. 658 Ch. 32 (US edition)
Padma Patil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2005, 17:58   #20
Sirius Potter Fan
Night Patroll
 
Sirius Potter Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK USA
Age: 53
Posts: 1,690
Rep Power: 15Sirius Potter Fan is on a distinguished road

Re: Whose side is Snape really on? **SPOILERS**

That is more or less how I see things as well, with only one possible exception. I believe that Harry is going to need some REAL proof of just what side Snape is on. I believe that that will have to come from some message left behind by Dumbledore. . . most likely I think, a memory of Dumbledore's of the REAL reason he trusted Snape, and on top of that, a memory of the agreement between the two that Snape would Kill Dumbledore if he had to to maintain his position with Voldemort.
__________________
Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
His memory will live on . . .




There is no place I know to compare with pure imagination; living there you'll be free, if you truly wish to be.
_Willy Wonka

Murphy's Law: "Whatever can go wrong, will."

Mad-eye Moody's Law: "Murphy was an optimist!"
Sirius Potter Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


  Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 22:00.
Style Designed by Epic Designz
 
 

Harry Potter & all associated names and images remain the property of J.K Rowling, Bloomsbury Publishers UK and AOL Time Warner.All other logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner. The comments are property of their posters, all the rest 2005 by The Final Horcrux.
You are not permitted to hotlink/hyperlink any images from the site.
Please respect the intellectual rights of The Final Horcrux. You must contact the webmaster/administrator of The Final Horcrux if you wish to take any part of the site and contents for reproduction on another site, forum, or other web presence. Any site that plagiarises The Final Horcrux will be subject to a complaint being registered against them.
 

Right Page Border