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HBP Character Discussion Any facts or details from HBP on new and old characters

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Old 16-04-2006, 23:38   #1
Snuffles
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"That can be rearranged."

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBP, p. 3, American Version
"That can be rearranged," said the portrait at once.
The Prime Minister's heart sank. He had been afraid of that. 'But I really was rather hoping to speak--"
"We shall arrange for the President to forget to call. He will telephone tomorrow night instead," said the litte man. 'Kindly respond immediately to Mr. Fudge."
Im starting to read over HBP again in my free time, and these words were the ones that caught my eyes as soon as I opened the book.

The portrait guy says that the MoM will arrange for the other president to forget to call the Prime Minister, and "make him remember" to call tomorrow. I mean, hm.


It's one thing to make somebody forget things. But "he will telephone tomorrow night instead"? The MoM can actually insert in new memories or compel someone to do something?

I was kind of wondering about that. It seems like such a wonderful, useful tool. Make Umbridge forget what she was doing and about the ban she put for Harry & George & Fred. May be it wouldn't work since they know how to use occlumency, but hey, who knows. Catch Voldemort unawares and make him forget to kill Harry. Make Snape forget about the Unbreakable Vow.





was that random?
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Old 17-04-2006, 11:01   #2
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

It sounds a little bit like the Imperius Curse. "We'll make him forget and we'll make him call tommorow." They definatly have control over him.

Is this spell work or some sort of authorized power the MOM has? It would be good if the OotP could use it when they do their anti-Voldemort chores.
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Old 17-04-2006, 11:32   #3
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

I think we are making too much of this. We know that memories can easily be altered, we have several examples of this. I think it's just a matter of making the President (and his staf) remember to call at a diffrent time than that which was planned
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Old 17-04-2006, 13:08   #4
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

I think it is just a memory modification. not realy removing his memory, then adding something back later. It probably works very similar to the imperious. We know that the MoM does routinely modify the memories of muggles who inadvertently witness magical misshaps, so I think this is nothing more than the same thing.
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Old 17-04-2006, 14:16   #5
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

Well heavens-I thought that statement was quite ominous sounding. Almost like the mafia threatening or blackmailing, you know-could the MoM have ways to control muggle government w/o magic necessarily being involved? Probably a bit over the top, but hmmm....
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Old 17-04-2006, 20:50   #6
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnarkologyMajor
could the MoM have ways to control muggle government w/o magic necessarily being involved?
I don't know about without magic, but it could be a thought though. Just what could happen if the "wrong sort" of wizards/witches got into the top offices at the MoM? I suppose without "using" magic, they could still make substantial threats to help them get their way. Bit if they did use magic . . . that could get a bit harry! Just think about how much power Umgridge had in OotP!
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Old 22-04-2006, 00:53   #7
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

Changing the memory of someone has always been look at in a bad light in the series to date me thinks - the fact there is a charm of spell that can create a less benign version of the Imperius curse should not be viewed with any less distaste right?
At the end of the day - changing someone's memory is a pretty raw act - we have seen cases of memory charms and when things have gone bad - Herbert Chorley, Professor Lockheart, Professor Lockheart's victims in the past - it is acceptable to do this but I still dont like the premise you can remove and insert memories into people with no choice - that sounds like Imperius ...
In the context of the events for this - I think it just helped JKR avoid a hole and could help keep the plot moving ...
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Old 14-06-2006, 06:54   #8
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius Potter Fan
I don't know about without magic, but it could be a thought though. Just what could happen if the "wrong sort" of wizards/witches got into the top offices at the MoM? I suppose without "using" magic, they could still make substantial threats to help them get their way. Bit if they did use magic . . . that could get a bit harry! Just think about how much power Umgridge had in OotP!
See, I guess they could.. and we know that Death Eaters have managed to infiltrate the Ministry, but they wouldn't just run around doing things like this unless it was extremely important .. The risk of being found out is just too great. There'd always be questions if something suspicious were to happen.

I don't really think it's Imperius here all too much. We have the Obliviate Charm which they could've used to make him forget to call.. and I'd imagine there's something similar that can make him remember. Imperius just seems like too much to use in this situation -- I don't think it'd really be necessary.
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Old 14-06-2006, 07:46   #9
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

I agree Tonks . . . it could even be more something like they would cause he telephone not to work. But even magacialy, it could be something similar to a hypnotic suggestion . . . again, sounding like the imperious. Perhaps a distraction . . . say they just cause or stage a smal incident that he will have to deal with, and will occupy him untill it is too "late" to call that night, so he would have to wait till the next evening. But, we know that the ministry has aproved other uses of other unforgivables, like the AK under certain circumstances. So, it could be likely that they just use a minor suggestion like forgeting something and doing it another time, when they feel it absolutly necessary.
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Old 14-06-2006, 11:54   #10
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

I think just changing times or causing a distraction would help - or simply someone could call on behalf of the PM and say he isn't available right now and would like to reschedule the meeting - often the most simplest answers can be the hardest to arrive at
But distraction sounds good - if they have the attention span like mine - I am so easily ....


..... what was I saying?
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