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HBP Character Discussion Any facts or details from HBP on new and old characters

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Old 15-05-2006, 16:20   #11
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Re: Did Snape help Lily . . . or did Lily help Snape

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alz
I think that is why Snape lashed out at Lily - he could see the way the winds were blowing and that James obviously liked her - but strange is at this time (i.e. Pensive snapshot) she thought James was a prat!
OK, I think we need to watch our timelines here. . . the scene in the Pensive was in their fifth year, they had been taking their O.W.L.'s right before the incident right? Snape wouldn't have written his notes in advanced potions untill his 6th year, so Lily had to have been helping him (or the other way around) during their sixth year. Now it could be possible that the event viewed in the pensive was the instigator that brought them together, as she stood up for him.
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Old 15-05-2006, 22:15   #12
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Re: Did Snape help Lily . . . or did Lily help Snape

Here is my take - agreeing mostly, Snape and Lily were in potions together. Lily thinks Snape is okay for a nerd, they help each other out, he starts to like her, so tells her more about himself. She soon is discovering he likes dark magic and begins creeping her out. She still thinks James is a git at this point, and things come to a head during the pensieve moment - Lily sees that Snape is not as innocent as he first seemed.

So, Lily breaks Snape's heart and eventually gets with James. Snape of course hates this - James was a bully, and yet Lily could be with him. I think Snape saw himself perhaps as a better person than James, somewhat, and more deserving of Lily.

Anyway, I believe that Snape and Lily were the two top students in potions, that is for sure!
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Old 16-05-2006, 04:34   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashgunn
My first post here so apologies if I reference something that was already covered.

My take on the Snape/Lily connection is that Snape was secretly in love with Lily but knew he had no chance. He hated James that much more for ending up with her and being what he couldn't be to her.

^^^ summed it all up nicely, though I don't know I agree with the "secretly" part.. Only time will tell, cuz we have very little speculate on at this point.. welcome to the board =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius Potter Fan
OK, I think we need to watch our timelines here. . . the scene in the Pensive was in their fifth year, they had been taking their O.W.L.'s right before the incident right? Snape wouldn't have written his notes in advanced potions untill his 6th year, so Lily had to have been helping him (or the other way around) during their sixth year. Now it could be possible that the event viewed in the pensive was the instigator that brought them together, as she stood up for him.
This is a critical point, and one I totally missed. My God you people are observant! Good eye and totally correct.. I can't wait to see how JKR manages to weave all this together..

Last edited by Alz; 16-05-2006 at 05:40..
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Old 16-05-2006, 12:16   #14
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Re: Did Snape help Lily . . . or did Lily help Snape

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius Potter Fan
Snape wouldn't have written his notes in advanced potions untill his 6th year, so Lily had to have been helping him (or the other way around) during their sixth year.
OK, I am going to have to ask for more info on that - looks like I missed something?
I didnt see anything in the comments made by HBP that indicated Lily was involved in his comments etc in the Advance Potions book ... of course I could have misunderstood what you were saying!

Also extending welcome to ashgunn - I think there is a great deal of plausibility in what you are saying - I suppose I was taking it an extra notch and saying before that Snape and Lily might have been 'first' boyfriend/girlfriend and of course Lily got over it - Snape didn't and that leads back to the point you are making - would certainly add fuel to those hate fires!

I still think that it was Snape teaching Lily - Snape was fascinated with the Dark Arts and he became a Potions Master - Lily was famed for Charms. She needed DADA to become an Auror - I think that is where the partnership came into effect as Snape helped her reach her goal of passing DADA.
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Old 17-05-2006, 00:20   #15
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Re: Did Snape help Lily . . . or did Lily help Snape

Lily and Severus? Boyfriend/Girlfriend? A thought that will certainly keep me awake tonight.. euww..
I believe Lily was a confident student, much like Hermione. Maybe not so much an overt know-it-all, but a smart and outgoing girl. I think she would have challenged Snape in classes and this may have intrigued him. I imagine he'd ask her a difficult question and she would fire back an answer. I think he eventually regarded her as an equal, but hated himself for doing so. I believe Lily would have sensed Severus had feelings for her and felt sorry for him. If he had already developed his Occlumency skills, he would have known this and it, along with the fact that James liked Lily probably made him turn on her. And from that point, his hatred of James and Lily was born. I believe his hatred comes from being deeply hurt and maybe being made to feel vulnerable and inferior for the first time - by a female, by a mudblood and by his rival (james). Hating them and hating Harry is a self preservation thing.
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Old 18-05-2006, 05:18   #16
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Re: Did Snape help Lily . . . or did Lily help Snape

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alz
OK, I am going to have to ask for more info on that - looks like I missed something?
I didnt see anything in the comments made by HBP that indicated Lily was involved in his comments etc in the Advance Potions book ... of course I could have misunderstood what you were saying!
Sorry, don't know how to take a quote from a previous post to reply to.... But anyway, in trying to reply to above comment....

My take on this is Sluggy was continually praising Harry's potion work that he was doing using Snape's anotated Advanced Potion-Making book. And he was continually saying it reminded him of Lily's work, suggesting that Lily was able to produce perfect potions at this level as well.

Following Harry producing the Bezoar as an antidote, Slughorn says...

'That's the individual spirit a real potion-maker needs!' said Slughorn happily, before Harry could reply. Just like his mother, she had the same intuitive grasp of potion-making, it's undoubtably from Lily he gets it..'(HBP P355 UK)

I interpreted this as Lily using the same variation on ingredients/recipes as Harry is using following the HBP's notes. Hence, the supposition that Lily and Snape were working together (or Snape helping her as I think) during year 6.

Of course, I could have completely got the wrong end of the stick!

Last edited by Alz; 18-05-2006 at 05:52..
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Old 18-05-2006, 11:38   #17
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Re: Did Snape help Lily . . . or did Lily help Snape

...Of course, that could be because of the careful tutoring of Severus as well right?
Let's face it - if Snape was the teacher and Lily the student - she would have started to pick up on the guys 'unique' arts with Potions ... thus when they were in Sluggy's class she would produce this individual spirit ...
Combine to that maybe Lily and Severus were lab partners in class - you can see where I am going with this.
Further more - Snape would have been working on potions far in advance of his current age - he was obviously a great potioneer and of course his Mother was a Potions Mistress as well - well at the very least showed great early signs!
The link seems to point towards being very gifted at potions- Snape's Mum, Snape and also Lily - I think Snape was taught by Mommy - Snape in turn taught Lily ...
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'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 25-05-2006, 19:13   #18
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Re: Did Snape help Lily . . . or did Lily help Snape

I can see your take on this Alz, there is some sense to it for sure. Kind of wondering now . . . what if neither helped the other specificaly. It could be that they were both quite gifted, and perhaps came up with some of their "secrets" in potioning by working together. I just can't get past the way Sluggy was seeing what Harry was doing as being like his mother. If the techniques had been Snapes "orriginal" thoughts, would Sluggy not have commented that perhaps Harry's "talent" was the result of Severus being such a great teacher?
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Old 27-05-2006, 00:56   #19
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Re: Did Snape help Lily . . . or did Lily help Snape

I suppose it depends on if Sluggy was aware of Snape and Lily tutoring one or the other - my guess is not.
I think it is safe to assume that they both had individual flair in potions that made it look unique - but in essence they shared the same technique.
Also - remember young Snape as having the charm of a dead slug - while Lily had a real passion and flair - she would have stood out where Snape just wanted to sit in the shadows stunning flies ...
I think Sluggy picking up on it with Lily is just because of character more than ability - and as I said they both would have had individual flair.
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'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 15-08-2006, 13:49   #20
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Re: Did Snape help Lily . . . or did Lily help Snape

As usual I apolligize if I am repeating someones previous comment. I did not read them all. We know we find out something about Lily. This is what i believe. In Snapes worst memory we see Lily protecting Snape and then Snape losing his cool against her. The relationship between the Lily and Snape does not seem like it has a romantic past. Lily is just very nice to people who are not well liked, Lupin tells us that in PoA. You also see in the memory how much Lily despises James. Now that said, I feel Snape has a thing for Lily and may have tried to use a love potion on her and it back fired and she had fallen for James instead. A Wild speculation, but a fun one.
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