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Discussions on Prisoner of Azkaban "If Black can break out of Azkaban ..."

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Old 19-05-2005, 04:15   #1
kashlie
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Dumbledore and the Dementors

I was listening to PoA today and it occured to me that the Dementors don't seem to act without orders. I have begun to wonder if DD might have set the Dementors on to Sirius, Harry and Hermione, knowing that Harry would use the patronus...As a part of his plan...I can't get my head around the whole time turning thing, but someone had to order the Dementors to come inside the school after what happened at the Quidditch match, and the only person I think could have done that, is Dumbledore.
I think he did it for his plan, and also so the Dementors would be sent back to Azkaban for an unauthorised attack on a student.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?
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Old 19-05-2005, 13:14   #2
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Re: Dumbledore and the Dementors

Interesting take there Kash hun.
You know you are kinda right - but that bases it on the fact the Dementors were still following orders - and we know that it wouldnt have been the first time they didnt - quidditch match and Harry comes to mind.

If you are right - and I do like this - then once again we have to look to the DiE side ... but I wont try using it as a firm pointer because I think possibly the dementors were just ignoring the orders.
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Old 21-05-2005, 05:49   #3
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Re: Dumbledore and the Dementors

I do think Dementors follow orders...most of the time. The rest of the time, I think they do what they want to/need to and the attack on Harry, Hermione, and Sirius falls into this catagory.
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Old 21-05-2005, 10:46   #4
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Re: Dumbledore and the Dementors

We have kind of touched upon this in another thread somewhere but I think the Dementors have a natural instict to go hunt for misery and suffering.
I think the reason the MoM managed to control them and also why they were attracted to Voldemort was because they all offered easy prey.
I think thou - every so often - nature calls and the Dementors just need to go ferel and hunt - not be served food on a plate.
I think this could be a big part in what you are looking for Kash
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Old 21-05-2005, 13:51   #5
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Re: Dumbledore and the Dementors

ONe possibility has to be, just who the dementors take orders from. We know that in OoTP they go and side with Voldemort, but mightent they have been taking orders from him before, Perhaps Voldemort had ordered them to stay at Azkaban for a while till he was ready to proceede
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Old 22-05-2005, 11:16   #6
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Re: Dumbledore and the Dementors

I think if the Dementors were under some kind of control with Voldemort historically they would have bowed to the DE's and helped they escape.
I think that the Dementors must have a nominated spokes person - someone who can communicate with Wizards without effecting them.
It might be that this Dementor is in fact like a leader or head figure - but there has to be a senior person in order to get the whole Dementor clan onside with whoever they are siding with at the time.
Unless they work like a collective (Yah I am having a borg moment ST fans) and they all share a common thought pattern, that might explain things a bit.
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'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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Old 22-05-2005, 20:17   #7
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Re: Dumbledore and the Dementors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaise
I think if the Dementors were under some kind of control with Voldemort historically they would have bowed to the DE's and helped they escape.
I think that the Dementors must have a nominated spokes person - someone who can communicate with Wizards without effecting them.
It might be that this Dementor is in fact like a leader or head figure - but there has to be a senior person in order to get the whole Dementor clan onside with whoever they are siding with at the time.
Unless they work like a collective (Yah I am having a borg moment ST fans) and they all share a common thought pattern, that might explain things a bit.
So you are saying there is a Queen dementor right? not a bad idea actually, though it sounds a bit wild, I think it really isn't. I don't think we have seen them ever acting as "individuals" As said before, they only follow orders, and it isn't allways clear just whose orders they follow. Although they follow the orders of the Ministry, you have to take into account just who at the ministry gives those orders (like Umbridge!) anyone in the ministry with the authority could command them to do their bidding, including someone under the imperious curse!

I really like this parallel. . .so, which dementor would be 7 of 9? *apologies to non ST fans*


This just hit me. . . In the orriginal ST series, Rodenbery had a character that acted very much like the dementors, it fed off the emotions of it's victims. I believe it was called "Rejek" or something similar. So. . . the dementors are really like a combination of Rejek and the borg!
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Old 23-05-2005, 12:11   #8
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Re: Dumbledore and the Dementors

Wow - that really is far too trekkie - I just liked the borg similarities
And on a side note - that was evil - none of them would be like 7 - she is - well heavenly

There has to be a way - some path to communication with the Dementors - as we have never heard them talk, even between themselves - we have to assume another method of communication exists that allows them all to act under one direction - unless they are like lemmings and spend their life looking for a cliff
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'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 24-05-2005, 06:46   #9
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Re: Dumbledore and the Dementors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaise
I think if the Dementors were under some kind of control with Voldemort historically they would have bowed to the DE's and helped they escape.
I think that the Dementors must have a nominated spokes person - someone who can communicate with Wizards without effecting them.
It might be that this Dementor is in fact like a leader or head figure - but there has to be a senior person in order to get the whole Dementor clan onside with whoever they are siding with at the time.
Unless they work like a collective (Yah I am having a borg moment ST fans) and they all share a common thought pattern, that might explain things a bit.
If the Dementors had helped the DE's escape it would be a little obvious to the MoM that there was some inside help. I mean, wouldn't it be a bit suss if all those convicted of supporting Voldyboy were all disappearing? As daft as Fudge is, I am sure he would notice something was up!

As for Dumbledore setting the Dementors on Sirius and Harry- I agree it could be a possibility but to help Harry, not harm him. Dumbledore knows he has the ability to produce a patronus ( he did it at the quidditch game to Malfoy and co) but Harry has little faith in himself until the task has been completed and overcome, so he wanted Harry to prove to himself that he can do it.

Also, they (the Dem's) were there to capture Sirius- maybe they sensed him and attacked.

I think they were just ignoring orders like they did at the Quidditch match but there are other possibilities and I just threw my bit in so if I am proved wrong then I can say that I knew it all along
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Old 27-05-2005, 15:05   #10
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Re: Dumbledore and the Dementors

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaz
If the Dementors had helped the DE's escape it would be a little obvious to the MoM that there was some inside help. I mean, wouldn't it be a bit suss if all those convicted of supporting Voldyboy were all disappearing? As daft as Fudge is, I am sure he would notice something was up!
Well see I am not 100% sure what punishement the MoM could have given out if he found out anyways ...
I mean apart from a Patronus that will just keep the Dementors away - there is no way we have seen to actually kill a dementor.
I just wanted to add that in there - I dont think the MoM could stop the Dementor's doing anything - hence why they were able to join Voldemort.
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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