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HBP Character Discussion Any facts or details from HBP on new and old characters

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Old 14-06-2006, 16:24   #11
halliemei
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

I'm thinking Confundus charm. There are those who wonder if it's a good thing or a bad thing to use -- Hermione uses it on MacLaggan in Prince.
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Old 15-06-2006, 11:12   #12
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

Have to admit - it seems to fit the bill and seems overall more acceptable that playing with a Muggles memory!
I think if that ever got out - even in the Wizarding world - it would just seem unethical and sets the tone that it is OK for Wizards to mess with Muggles!
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Old 17-06-2006, 07:05   #13
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alz
I think if that ever got out - even in the Wizarding world - it would just seem unethical and sets the tone that it is OK for Wizards to mess with Muggles!
exactly! another reason it could have been a purely "muggle-ish" solution. and I realy like the idea of having someone just call and reschedule it! LOL! I think we are so stuck on wizards and witches using magic for everything that we can easily overlook the simple everyday answers!
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Old 17-06-2006, 11:36   #14
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

I would like to think the Magical world does act ethically with it's muggle counterparts - while they don't show them a great deal of respect, I think they know about abuse of power and if they really do mess with Muggles like toys - does it make them any better than Voldemort or other oppressors and dictators?
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Old 18-06-2006, 02:29   #15
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

Exactly-To me, going around obliviating memories, cunfunding, and such-isn't any better than what the Deatheaters did to the Muggles at the Quidditch World Cup. I guess that's an ethical debate-but I would have a hard time deciding which I would hate more, being humiliated in such a deplorable way-or having my mind erased. There are some memories that on one hand would be nice to forget, yet bad memories are part of our core being and shape who we are. We probably wouldn't learn from our mistakes and hard knocks in life-if we didn't even remember them.
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Old 18-06-2006, 07:14   #16
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

A lot of your assumptions here have to go back to what you think of Fudge and/or Scrimgeour. I personally think that they are both quite self-serving (much more so Fudge, but still). As such, I think that the "that can be rearranged" line -- sounds way to "gangster" (as in old fashioned mob kind) to be without malice of some kind. I have other opinions on this line that aren't really appropriate here, too, but I cannot prove them. Either way, I tend to think that less-kind methods of influencing the American President are intended here. Thus, the Confundus charm. Plus, I think the point is to show (through multiple scenes in HBP) that the Confundus charm is used for "good" (i.e., by Hermione on MacLaggan) and for "ill". It also teaches us to look for the "symptoms" of being under such a spell. It's not as bad as an Imperius, but we've never been taught how to fight this spell. Then there's the question of Neville, but I'm not going there.

Either way, I still think Confundus is the intention . . . BUT you're quite right that it could have been through a phone call --- which, would be made by whom? The wizards aren't all real knowlegable about felly-tones.
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Old 21-06-2006, 18:34   #17
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

But on the other hand they have placed magical folk into the powers of the nation before - so it seems they are not averse to 'stacking the deck' when they need to!

I think you are well observed - there is good and bad uses of the spell - but would you consider what Hermione did to McLaggen as being good? I don’t think it was - she also took away a persons ability to act in a natural manner - the fact the person was a real prat is irrelevant - it's touches on the debate of ethically killing people because they killed themselves and the likes - while some people can justify the actions - others will always question is the ends any worse than the means that got them there...
It is once again an ethical debate but does show you the double standards of he Wizarding world and that just because you are magical - it doesn’t make you better than those that aren’t!
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'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
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Old 14-12-2006, 04:09   #18
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

i didnt really see it like that. when i read the passage it made me think of GoF when they was explaining about the world cup stadium and how if muggles get any where near it they suddenly remember urgent appointments they should be at.

I no its not the same exactly...but i can see it working as the type of charm that was used on the stadium and if that charm was used on distance between the muggle and the stadium then maybe this one was used on time.

does that make sense? so the president will remember to call when the time limit on the charm has run out.

they only used time in this case it can be changed to distance, sound etc...
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Old 10-01-2007, 18:23   #19
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Re: "That can be rearranged."

You may recall how Dumbledore showed Harry the memory of Voldemort killing "the Muggle man who had abandoned his witch mother," as well as his grandparents (HBP 367). Remember that Morfin, a known muggle hater, had a memory of himself committing the crime inserted into his head, and never thought twice about them, believing them to be factual.

Of course this is a very evil misuse of the power, but it wouldn't be the first time we have seen the Ministry try to say that the end justifies the means...just look at Stan Shunpike.

ALZ: I completely agree with your sentiments...Murder and terror aside, Voldemort seems more thirsty for control than anything...and you may agree (or disagree) that most of his actions reflect his desire to control or have power. The ministry, in my opinion, have become in great danger of becoming like Voldemort, as they look to a conclusion, and forego any ethical requirements before attempting the easiest way to reach that goal. I know that the Ministry of Magic will be required to abide by its own laws for the good of the people, but just like our own legal systems we can see how corruption or even simply lust for more power can cause parts of the government to do things that may seem unethical.

Last edited by serophis; 10-01-2007 at 18:27..
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