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Discussions on Prisoner of Azkaban "If Black can break out of Azkaban ..."

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Old 22-04-2005, 13:36   #1
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Secret Passages?

I am curious to know more about the secret passages in Hogwarts and where they might lead. The following outtake gives all the details about the tunnels we ever get from the story, yet I'm sure they will be an important part of the story to come.

"This map showed a set of passages he had never entered. And many of them seemed to lead -
'Right into Hogsmeade,' said Fred, tracing one of them with his finger. 'There are seven in all. Now, Filch knows about these four' - he pointed them out - 'but we're sure we're the only ones who know about these. Don't bother with the one behind the mirror on the fourth floor. We used it until last winter, but it's caved in - completely blocked. And we don't reckon anyone's ever used this one, because the Whomping Willow's planted right over the entrance. But this one here, this one leads right into the cellar of Honeydukes. We've used it loads of times. And as you might've noticed, the entrance is right outside this room, through the one-eyed old crone's hump.''
(PoA, pg 193 US)

I guess the first question should be where do the four tunnels that Filch knows about go, and what about the one behind the mirror on the fourth floor? Fred and George never say where it goes only that it's collapsed. Does anyone else think the tunnels could become a bigger part of the story, and any idea of where they lead?
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Old 22-04-2005, 16:07   #2
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Re: Secret Passages?

I think the four that Filch knows about lead into Hogsmeade, as it appears Fred and George were indicating . . . that's how I read it anyway. I think that the tunnels were mentioned there - especially the Whomping Willow - to be used later on in the story for the encounter between everyone with Sirius and Pettigrew. They used the Willow to get to the Shrieking Shack.

It is possible that another tunnel could be used later on for some reason - I don't see why not.
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Old 22-04-2005, 18:30   #3
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Re: Secret Passages?

I was thinking along the lines of - what building in Hogsmeade could these tunnels lead? We know the one behind the one-eyed crone goes to Honeydukes cellar. I wonder why would there be a tunnel from the school to the local sweetshop - I mean what would be the purpose? They built Hogwarts a thousand years ago. Why would they build six tunnels to Hogsmeade, the seventh being the one that leads from the Whomping Willow to the Shrieking Shack? We know the story of Lupin and the Whomping Willow, but was the tunnel already there, or did Dumbledore create it magically, specifically for Lupin?

Also, the passage behind the mirror on the fourth floor - Fred said the passage collapsed the previous winter. That would have been the winter Harry was in his second year and dealing with hearing the basilisk. Could it be that the tunnel was purposefully collapsed by someone, or maybe collapsed by the basilisks use of the tunnel? I need to go back to the book and see what specifically happened in the winter during CoS. I think it might be a clue

Any help with this idea would be greatly appreciated
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Old 22-04-2005, 23:39   #4
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Re: Secret Passages?

Well...I bet that throughout the ages, there were cunning troublemakers at Hogwarts. I imagine that Hogsmeade is pretty old, but Hogwarts should be older. I think that the tunnels were dug after Hogsmeade was built. If so, we must consider two things about this topic:
1) What purpose did Honeydukes serve before becoming a sweetshop? (Surely it has not been selling stuff for the past I-don't-know-how-many-centuries!)
2) Why has nobody noticed that sweets keep going missing?!? This kind of theft, if it has been going on for so long, is more serious than we take it for... taking, say, a few pounds of sweets per year for a few centuries means a lot of money Hogwarts owes Honeydukes!

However, my final explanation is this:
These tunnels are ancient escape routes for the inhabitants of Hogsmeade, to Hogwarts, where they were granted safety. I haven't yet thought of why they were being chased about, only that they were having some sort of conflict against someone, and had to go to Hogwarts for safety every once in a while. I dunno. Just an idea. As Dumbledore said: "Help will always be given to those who ask for it." Maybe previous headmasters were of the same belief.
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Old 23-04-2005, 07:35   #5
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Re: Secret Passages?

Good points made, George. It brings another thought to mind regarding where some of the tunnels might go. Hogsmeade is the only all wizarding village in Britain. I wonder if not only were the tunnels made to give the inhabitants of the village a way into the castle, but also as an escape route for the students and teachers. I wondered if it's possible that one of the tunnels possibly goes to the Hogs Head? In another thread about the future of the Order headquarters we discussed Spinner's End as possibly being Dumbledore's home and future headquarters for the Order. I mentioned a possible second location for HQ in Hogsmeade - one closer to the castle and to Harry when he's at school.

Since Dumbledore and Aberforth are brothers, and it seems possible that there might be a tunnel going from the castle to the Hogs Head, and Aberforth is - or was a member of the Order, ( I believe he still is) that would be an ideal location for an auxilliary headquarters location as it has rooms to let and probably an expansive storage area. A tunnel to the castle would be ideal in case the Order had to get to the castle quickly as they can't apparate inside the grounds. It makes me wonder where the other tunnels might go? I'm sure they all have a purpose in the future story.

I had a little edit here

I guess a good question to ask would be, what other locations in Hogsmeade might be opportune for Dumbledore to use or get help from if needed? (I've got my war tactics helmet on - trying to think like Dumbledore - it looks rather odd with this pointy thing on top.)
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Old 23-04-2005, 11:49   #6
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Re: Secret Passages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortescue
(I've got my war tactics helmet on - trying to think like Dumbledore - it looks rather odd with this pointy thing on top.)
Thanks for the chuckle Fort!

now to business. I have thought about the tunnel behind the mirror alot, as well as the four Filch knows...even if the one behind the mirror collapsed, shurely there is magic to repair it! I mean...repairo works on everything else doesn't it??. I can see that one getting re-opened. Now...the tunnels Filch knows of...He is only one person...cant guard them all all of the time, even with Mrs Norris, that will only cover two, and Harry has the map to show him where filch is, so maybe we will be seeing them used soon and where they end up. The thought also occurs that there could be more passages that everyone has forgotten, or that Moony,Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs just didn't know about when they made their map.

As for missing candy from Honeydukes...every store sufferes theft in every type of civilization. There are thiefs everywhere. So I doubt the store owners suspect Hogwarts, or a tunnel for their los(ses, or they would have just closed off the trap door! Most likely, most kids using the tunnel didn't steal any, or much, so suspicions wouldn't come up, they wouldn't want to give themselves away and loose their secret passage.

I doubt that the tunnels were ever used for the population of Hogsmead at large to retreat to the castle, then the tunnels would have been too widely known. I think it most likely that they were all built for special reasons by many different people, some of them building a new one just because the didn't know of the others' existance. I agree that it was Dumbledore that made the tunnel from the willow to the shack...that said...does Dumbledore own the shack?

I like the idea however of the tunnels being used so people could aparate to Hogsmede, then have a safe and secret passage to Hogwarts, and Hogs Head would be a good place to aparate unquestioned as well. NOW...does Voldemort know about any of the tunnels? (scary thought huh?)
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Old 23-04-2005, 12:11   #7
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Re: Secret Passages?

Voldemort might not know of the tunnels, but Wormtail does since he was one of the Marauders and helped design the map. If Wormtail knows, then Voldemort knows.

I can see the tunnels coming into play. Another scary thought is if Wormtail or Voldemort got ahold of the Marauders map, or Wormtail figured out how to make another one without the help of the other Marauders. If Voldemort did breech Hogwarts, they would know right where Harry and Dumbledore were at, and everyone else for that matter. If the school had something like a fire drill, but we can call it a "Voldemort drill," and all the students were evacuated into the tunnels. If Wormtail turned into a rat and took back the map from Harry, hiding the students wouldn't help.

I think if they were to use the tunnels it would be for quick, undiscovered transport between Hogsmeade and the castle, possibly by the Order and Dumbledore, and also evacuation of the students if necessary.

I hope this isn't getting too far into wild speculation
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Old 23-04-2005, 12:28   #8
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Re: Secret Passages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortescue
Voldemort might not know of the tunnels, but Wormtail does since he was one of the Marauders and helped design the map. If Wormtail knows, then Voldemort knows.

I can see the tunnels coming into play. Another scary thought is if Wormtail or Voldemort got ahold of the Marauders map, or Wormtail figured out how to make another one without the help of the other Marauders. If Voldemort did breech Hogwarts, they would know right where Harry and Dumbledore were at, and everyone else for that matter. If the school had something like a fire drill, but we can call it a "Voldemort drill," and all the students were evacuated into the tunnels. If Wormtail turned into a rat and took back the map from Harry, hiding the students wouldn't help.

I think if they were to use the tunnels it would be for quick, undiscovered transport between Hogsmeade and the castle, possibly by the Order and Dumbledore, and also evacuation of the students if necessary.

I hope this isn't getting too far into wild speculation

OH MY! I had forgotten about Pettigrew being able to tell Voldemort!!! **shivering in my boots** I don't like this at all!!!! AND WHY HASN'T HARRY THOUGHT OF THIS!! And Wormtail also knows that Harry has the map (or should at least). One hope...in wormtail's time all seven tunnels were used. He could find himself discredited in Voldemorts eyes, if he tries a few tunnels that all end in dead ends, the cave-in, or the ones Filch knows of, he may have blocked off. Maybe (**hoping**) this is how Wormtail will repay his debt to Harry by not disclosing the tunnels to Voldemort (**thinking..."Fat chance"**) OOOOOOOO!! I'm scared!!!!
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Old 24-04-2005, 06:42   #9
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Re: Secret Passages?

Ooooh SPF I am glad you mentioned Pettigrew...he has a way of trying to secretly save Harry (let me take that further elsewhere) and I doubt he has disclosed the tunnels to Voldemort. Afterall, Dumbledore knows of them (yup, all of them) and Voldemort probably thinks DD would have them all blocked off and/or guarded.

I also don't think Voldemort would resort to sneaking in through tunnels. He is a man who would take somewhere like Hogwarts by force. He believes he is above all else and leaves sneaking to his lesser servants.
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Old 24-04-2005, 08:49   #10
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Re: Secret Passages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortescue
If the school had something like a fire drill, but we can call it a "Voldemort drill,"
Hee hee, cute. Unfortunatly I think it would be as useless as the American's atomic war drills during the 1950's, if they are going to drop an atomic bomb on you, it doesn't matter if you are hiding under your desk.

I do think Wormtail will tell about the tunnels but I doubt he would be able to create another map. Remember, he was the Neville Longbottom if his group, do you think he would be able to do 4 wizard's work?

As far as the tunnels original purpose, we can only speculate. Perhaps Hogsmead wasn't always an only wizard town, and during witch burnings the witches needed safety.
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