A geam of something like triumph


Sherbet Lemon
GOF said:
For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in DD's eyes. But next second Harry was sure he had imagined it, for when DD had returned to his seat behind the desk, he looked as old and weary as Harry had ever seen him.

A lot of people are debating this scene in various threads here. If this has its own thread, my apoligies, and merge this one.
I think it was the use of Harry's blood that gave DD the gleam of triumph in his eyes. I think by doing this, Voldemort may have negated the blood protection that his mother gave him. But by doing so, he also became in debt to Harry. I think that if Voldemort killed Harry, he will die too.
Or we may have a scenario like the one shown in War of the worlds. The aliens doomed themselves once they ate and drank on earth. They were not used to with all the bacteria and other germs that we are.
Voldemort is not used to the feeling of love and loyalty and bravery. That blood might wear him out eventually.
What do you guys think?

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
You know, it is so hard to prognosticate here what JKR has in mind . . . This is a magical world, and JKR is the creator of the magic, she creates the spells, curses, potions, and all the rules . . . It is CLEAR that there is something afoot here, but it is also clear unfortulately that she hasn't given us a clue other than the look of triumph! There is quite a bit of reference to blood on the series . . .

PS/SS said:

the twelve uses of dragon's blood
Bloody Barron
One of his legs was bloody and mangled (Snape)
Flint looked as if he had some troll blood in him.
One book had a dark stain on it that looked horribly like blood
feed it on a bucket o' brandy mixed with chicken blood every half hour​
he said, showing them his hand, which was wrapped in a bloody handkerchief.​
That's unicorn blood
out cold with a bloody lump on its head.​
pulled out a blood-red stone

These are all just from the first book, (not every refference, I didn't include multiple repititions in the same context) I don't have time now to go over the other books, but it stands to reason just the same that JKR considers blood a very powerful thing in the magical world . . .


Time Turners
I am looking at the mythology around of Medusa at the present time. Apart from the obvious snake connection Medusa had poisonous blood on one side of her body and good blood on the other. Medusa was killed by Perseus by beheading, this may relate to SnarkologyMajor's references to necklace and nearly headless etc, posted on another thread. Perseus also used winged sandals, an invisibility cap, a sickle and and a mirrored shield in his killing of Medusa. Not too much imagination needed to translate these into broomstick, invisibility cloak, wand and the mirror of erised.



Luna's Biggest Fan!
for the medusa tale you forgot one other reference to blood: as perseus was leaving he carried the head and the blood landed on the shore and pegasus (the winged horse) was born. so, there may also be a reference with thestrals and abraxans (a breed of winged horses that drew the Beauxbaton's carrage) but i do see the connections to the story and maybe harry will defeat voldemort by beheading him?

there does seem to be quite a bit of refernce to blood in the HP series. we'll just have to wait and see what comes of it all.

Padma Patil

Dumbledore's Girl
Another huge reference to blood (sorry if someone already indicated this) is the Pure-blood/Mud-blood references. Or if one prefers pureblood and muggle born.

It is a huge thing throughout the entire series. In fact, its what the war between the wizards is about. Blood may just be one of the most important things in the series.

As to the main topic of this thread... I like the idea that because of Voldemort taking blood from Harry, that Voldemort is now in Harry's debt. That way, no matter which way the final battle turns out, Voldemort will die. Of course, I'm assuming that if you owe somebody your life, you can't kill them without being killed yourself. :)


Time Turners
We know that blood forms a significant theme in the series. The “bad guys” in both the wizard and the muggle world put a lot of store by “good blood.” We know that Lily’s blood coupled with some ancient magic of Dumbledore’s has protected Harry up to now. We know that Harry’s blood is now flowing through Voldemort’s veins. The question is how can that be an advantage to Harry?

This may sound a little mad but could blood, particularly if helped by some spell of Dumbledore’s, act like the cores of Harry’s and Voldemort’s wands? If so could it be that Voldemort could not kill Harry because he has Harry’s blood within him but Harry could kill Voldemort because he does not have Voldemort’s blood within him?

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
GB said:
This may sound a little mad but could blood, particularly if helped by some spell of Dumbledore’s, act like the cores of Harry’s and Voldemort’s wands? If so could it be that Voldemort could not kill Harry because he has Harry’s blood within him but Harry could kill Voldemort because he does not have Voldemort’s blood within him?

You know GB, that may be the ultimate irony to the entire story. For our purposes, the story begins with the spell bouncing from Harry and nearly completely destroying Voldemort. Why didn't it destroy him? because of the Horcruxes of course. But now . . . as book 7 comes to a close, we see Harry, with the help of his friends has found and destroyed all 7 horcruxes, and now faces Voldemort for the final duel. Voldemort overly selfconfident in his assumptions that Harry's blood in him, and his Horcruxes will insure him success, fires the AK at him, but now . . . a split second of shock registers on his face as the spell, full force rebounds again and this time there is no ripping from his body, no pain beyone pain, but simple unreversable death.

Throughout the series Voldemort's arrogance has been his downfall more than anything else . . . he thinks he has it all under controll only to find out each time that he had underestimated or forgotten something. . . . I like it!


Time Turners
Blast, you're right.

But it will only be one page!

How about trying to ruin the bit about how the Horcruxes are found and destroyed.

Perhaps we could start a poll? I don't know how perhaps Alz is the only one who can.

It could be headed
"How will the series end"
Harry kills Voldemort with AK curse
Harry kills Voldemort by beheading
Harry is a horcrux and walks through the veil to complete Voldemorts death.
Voldemort curses Harry but the spell rebounds and kills Voldemort
Voldemort kills Harry
They shake hands and decide to co-exist until they die of natural causes.


Luna's Biggest Fan!
oh, if we have guessed the ending of the series it doesnt matter because we wont know we ruined it until we reach the very end of the 7th book, and guess what! we wont remember we ruined it because we will be so engrossed in the story! yay! anyway, i cant believe we missed the purity of blood thing! :eek: :eek: such an over sight! but i kind of like the idea of the curse rebounding a second time, it would be JUSTICE!!!! WOOOOOO!!!!


Time Turners
the gleam of triumph suggests things are going exactly how he planned or expected them too.......this backs up the dd set it all up theory!


Sherbet Lemon
I dont know about that.
If DD really had that gleam of triumph because he set it all up, he wouldnt really let Harry compete in the trournament, would he? Or at least not in the last round of that maze.
I do not know what the blood sharing would bring in the end. But if DD was happy about it, then we are in for a pleasant surprise. So far JKR has done completely unpredictable. They story has twisted and turned in a direction where no one ever thought of. With the whole hallows debate, I think that blood will play out a final role.


Time Turners
Okay I can see the logic of having this thread, keeping strictly to the blood-tie between Harry and Voldemort (got confused there for a minute:eek: ) That was a great list SPF! I've been revisiting some research on dragon's blood in mythology, since the 12 uses that Dumbledore discovered could still play a big part. JKR hasn't been obvious about this aspect, but it has cropped up. Slughorn splattered it all over the walls in HBP (in this instance it was red) and Hagrid used dragon steak on his eye in OotP (in this instance the blood was green). One of the uses in mythology in understanding the language of the birds-so what other uses are there in myth? While researching this I've come across a few interesting finds-

The destructive powers of the dragon derived from its fiery breath, which can devastate whole countries. Dragon's eyes also have this fiery red quality, sometimes believed to reflect the treasures they guarded. Rain clouds and thunder and lightning were believed to be the dragon's breath, hence the fire-breathing monster.

Hmmm..we still don't really know why Tom's eyes are red do we? Could dragon's blood be part of the secret to horcruxes? FB&WTFT has one dragon with red eyes-the Ukranian Ironbelly. Given all the illegal cross-breeding going on, it's interesting that JKR included-

FT&WTFT pg.11-"There are ten breeds of dragon, though these have been known to interbreed on occasion, producing rare hybrids."

Just some food for thought. Also there was a vial of blood in OotP-

pg.106-"...an ornate bottle with a large opal set into the stopper, full of what Harry was quite sure was blood."

Curious that there is an Antipodean Opaleye in Fantastic Beasts also....

Here's some more things-
In legends, it is known as a prophet; a riddler; and a guardian of temples, paradises, magic, and hidden treasures. Siegfried battled a dragon for immortality and Hercules confronted one for the golden apples of great happiness. Sometimes the key to the entrance of these hidden places is the hero's own sword, dripping with the dragon's blood.
There are good or divine dragons which are frequently attacked by the evil ones. Sometimes they are killed in battle by their adversaries and their blood splashes to the earth. Fortunately, for humans, this blood makes a good medicine known as "dragon's blood". Since this medicine effects miraculous cures on the wounds it is applied to, a correlation was made between "dragon's blood" and Christ's healing blood.
Dragons blood is used for love and protection spells.
Dragons blood is also another name for the juice from a certain plant called Dracaena draco.
Dragons blood was the only solution known by alchemists to be capable of dissolving gold.

Well I'm seeing some correlations here-gee Hufflepuffs Cup and Salazar's locket are both gold, I wonder....
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Time Turners
SPF you are brilliant! This would be the ultimate climax after Harry has endured such hardship. This keeping pure and noble. Although I really don't want to know the ending this would be a great ending with the final line reading "at last there was peace, Harry touched his forehead and realized the burning pain was forever gone from his scar!" just a thought.


Time Turners
I forgot to mention one of the more important aspects-it relates to Glumbumble's idea about the phoenix core wands. Fawkes' tail feathers are golden.

OotP pg. 474-"There was a flash of flame in the very middle of the office, leaving behind a single golden feather that floated gently to the floor."

Anyway I'm going to keep working on this:D
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Vampyre Elder
I apologize sincerely for stepping in betwixed this maze of VERY interesting and brilliant speculation . . . but I read somewhere (can't recall my source) that Dumbledore may have had that look of triumph upon hearing the news of Volemort's use of Harry's blood because Harry's blood was, at the time, poisoned by the bite from that spider in the maze. Voldemort unknowingly used poisoned blood to respawn himself. And DD knew this... perhaps he planned on it :rolleyes:


Luna's Biggest Fan!
oooooo.... i had forgot about harry being bit by the acromantula. oh man! that could play so well into the story line! like, maybe because harry's blood was contaminated by the poison, that was why Voldemort was able to touch him: becaus eth epoison had counter-acted the blood protection. after all, harry may have been dieing (very slowly of course), and because of that he didnt have the protection because of it. or maybe because voldemort got contaminated blood, he will slowly die. so interesting.


Sherbet Lemon
A very good observation. But I can guarantee that it can not be the reason.
Because the spider is not even shown in the movies, nor is the sphinx. I am sure that if that spider poison in Harry's blood was the reason DD had that gleam of triumph in his eyes, the whole crucial scene would have been in the movies too.
Some times we hate movies because they contain very less than the books. But the movies have become great reference to what is crucial and what is not.


Time Turners
Oh my, I was preparing to post a short bit here, but I must admit to being taken off guard by your guarantee cagedcactus! Them there is fightin' words:D :D (all in good fun though) I can’t say that I’ve heard that idea before and am curious as to why you would conclude this. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one since I don’t consider the movies to be canon at all-sure they can be used as supporting evidence, but only supporting. If we are to conclude – that it’s not in the movie, it’s not important then we would be concluding that-
Voldemort’s quest for immortality is not important to the septology (which would eliminate the need for HBP)
Snape working undercover as a deatheater would not be important to the septology (same as above)
BCjr. Faking his death is not important
Lupin, James, Peter, and Sirius were the marauders and James is an animagus Stag is not important
JKR doesn’t say too much about the movies-she does have some input, but I feel that she looks at them in an entirely different light than the books-
JKR- I don't think people need help understanding the books. I hope the film will be really good and not disappoint the fans.
JKR-"That's not my bag. They do ask my opinion, and I give them my opinion. My input is largely creative, it's really with the screenwriter and the director. I've seen sets, and they're amazing. It's a very spooky experience to walk into the Great Hall, really very spooky.
JKR-"my opinion has been asked about all sorts of things where I really didn't think I'd ever be consulted. I'm grateful for that, obviously. But I'm also very aware that that's not anything to do with me, it's really to do with the readers.

JKRowling is a literary tour-de-force and the clues to guessing what’s to come is hidden in the words themselves-
JKR-"There is a lot in this book. If I can only say that I’ve had to lay certain clues in book five. Some clues are resolved, some things are resolved in book five and there’s information in there that you really do need to know otherwise people will feel cheated when certain outcomes happen.” Katie Couric 2003
JK Rowling:' No… I didn’t, I will say this. I had to put in some things because of what’s coming in books 6 and 7 and I didn’t want anyone to say to me “what a cheat you never gave us clues”. If I didn’t mention things in Order of the Phoenix I think you’ve said “well, you sprang that on us”! Whereas I want you to be able to guess if you’ve got your wits about you.
JKR uses Rowlinguistics (a word she coined)-words that are puns, words from mythology, latin, other languages, Olde English. She also uses homophones, homonyms, metonyms, portmanteau, and malapropisms. She is a linguistics genius! When Neville called the Philosopher’s Stone-the Phililogical Stone, she was giving a very big clue.
Examples-Knockturn Alley-nocturnally
Diagon Alley-diagonally
Occlumency-a clue men see
Gringotts-gringot(miser) + ingot(nugget)
When you are hiding your major clues in the words-you have to pretty much give up on that being carried onto film, it is impossible to do visually. There are 2 kinds of clues also, storyline and septology. If you go back through each book you will find words all over the place that give clues to what will happen at the end of the book-a really quick example w/o some of the linguistics is CoS, check how many times JKR uses the words-eyes, mirrors, glasses,freezing, snakes/slither, bathrooms, water,-her repetitive use throughout the entire book, were giving clues to the storyline resolution.(The fact that these continued to be running throughout the rest of the books gives us a clue that 1)we’ll see the CoS again and/or 2)there is another basilisk/slytherin yet to come) After you eliminate the storyline clues-you have all the septology clues left and there are so many it gives one nightmares. I already figured that a Slug-horned slug would feature prominently since this has been reinforced over and over. Something that frustrates me to no end is –before 5 came out I was guessing that Harry had 2 souls, his and Voldemort’s-and that Voldemort was just souless (close-but no cigar), well the clues were there and there must have been clues about horcruxes (Hour + cross, lots to see now-oh and Moody’s 7 layer trunk) because I came across the myth about Koshchei the Deathless who divides and hides his soul-
“My death,” said he, “is far from here and hard to find, on the wide ocean. In that sea is an island, and on the island there grows a green oak, and beneath the oak is an iron chest, and in the chest is a small basket, and in the basket is a hare, and in the hare is a duck, and in the duck is an egg; and he who finds the egg and breaks it, kills me at the same time.”
Now I completely disregarded the idea of Voldemort doing such a thing-mostly because I found it distasteful and didn’t think Jo would go there….boy was I wrong! Well needless to say-never say never. Although most of my guesses will be plain wrong-it’s still a lot of fun to guess, and I completely understand that not everyone wants to delve so deeply into the puzzle. The story is exceptional on it’s own!
Okay. I guess I went on a rant a bit! Well I’m probably in the doghouse now and I apologize if I offended:( -it just that we now have very little time left to work this out and I’m feeling a bit emotional.
Jinemem-the theory you mention is still a valid one, we know that acromantulas were wizard-bred(the purpose is mysterious, yet probably linked to the basilisk) and HBP had the whole scene with Slughorn taking Aragog’s poison. The stick in the mud on that one though-was the fact that the Basilisk’s poison did affect Harry, so it threw a damper on him being immune to poison. But then perhaps he is immune to acromantula poison while Voldemort is not..so it is a great possibility. We’re just working on some other ideas and possibilities-which brings me to what I was going to post in the first place-
I’m running across evidence that shows Dragon’s blood (be it mythos or plant form) is necessary to the creation of the Philosopher’s Stone, so there could be something there. And Dragon’s blood, Unicorns, and Phoenixes are all symbols of Christ. Could ensuring that Voldemort has all three components be part of the plan for his destruction?
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