Blood of thy enemy forcibly taken...

Nagini

Time Turners
In GoF Voldemort uses Harry in his plans to restore himself. As we all know, Wormtail wanted Voldemort to use just any wizard and Voldemort did say that it could work that way, but he wanted Harry.

I thought we could speculate here why he wanted Harry instead of any other wizard and if it was for the same reason that cause the gleam in Dumbledores eyes when Harry told him about it. Are both Voldemort and Dumbledore aware of some magic that would cause issues later on because Voldemort used Harry as the enemy or just Dumbledore? Could this be old magic at work again and what are/will be the consequences of this?
 

Tinkerbell

Time Turners
I guess it was because Voldemort thought that if he used any old wizard and the re-birthing would work, that by using Harry because of their connection, this would strengthen the magic involved. Agree that there is a possibility that Voldemort thought that by using Harry's blood he would then be 'immune' to what happened when he tried to kill Harry as a baby, and also when he was 'attached' to Quirrel and it caused Quirrel's death.
 

Kingsley

Time Turners
I think that he was thinking he would be immune to touching Harry and he thought it would be a good connection as far as the prophecy and love the irony--the thought of coming back with the blood of your prophecized enemy would say alot to the dark lord's history
 

Nagini

Time Turners
Yes I agree with both of you, but why then was Dumbledore so pleased about it? He examined Harry's wound and asked what Voldemort did.

Here is the couple of paragraphs from that section I am referring to.

GobletofFire said:
"He said my blood would make him stronger than if he'd used someone else's," Harry told Dumbledore. "He said the protection my - my mother left in me - he'd have it, too. And he was right - he could touch me without hurting himself, he touched my face."

For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, Harry was sure he had imagined it, for Dumbledore had returned to his seat behind the desk, he looked as old and weary as Harry had ever seen him.

So can we take from this that Voldemort's point of view was that using Harry would make him stronger but did he mean magically do you think or just physically?

Dumbledore obviously knows something - perhaps there is something in Lily's blood and that it came from Harry means that Voldemort cannot make himself immortal which is what he will be working towards again?
 

Tonks

Unspeakable
Yes, I agree that he used Harry because it would make him able to touch him, and no longer provide Harry with the protection his mother left in him.

However, I also think it may have been a type of "in your face" move. Voldemort probably thought that, in addition to strengthening him, this would weaken Harry, even if only psychologically.

Still, to contradict myself, at that point, Voldemort was not planning on letting Harry get away alive. Maybe this could have been used as a future "in your face" to Dumbledore, when he found out that Voldemort was back and had killed Harry and used him to help him return to power.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I think it may have been a pride thing for Voldemort - he would like to have re-birthed on the blood of the person that nearly killed him - it would restore his pride and re-affirm his position with the DE's and his enemies ....
But I am also sensitive to the fact that he must also have guessed that Harry had protection in him as well - so this blood would serve to enhance his own, make him more powerful etc ... and by him touching Harry he seemed to have felt he was justified in his call ...

Now Dumbledore - that is a lot more tricky for me to answer ...
If you adopt a logical thinking you will point towards that Dumbledore knows there is something in Harry's blood that the Dark Lord wont like - something that could make him weaker in battle or gradually wear him down ... so yeah smug face adopted for a second ...

On the other hand, well it doesn't bear thinking about :)
 

Lily

Wingardium Leviosa
Maybe the gleam in Dumbledore's eye was more like a quiet victory - in a weird way. I mean, Dumbledore had always realised that Harry has this ancient form of magic, bestowed to him from his mother, something that Voldemort overlooked. Something that Voldemort didnt see as being important. Maybe Dumbledore felt that how that Voldemort had acknowledged that the love that Harry's mother gave Harry when she sacrificed her life for him, it was Voldemort sort of acknowledging the fact that love does exist and it is much stronger than any magic that he could ever practice. And maybe Dumbledore sees this as a victory in a way. He has always refused to kill Voldemort - even though he has the power to do so, maybe it's because he wants Voldemort to be able to learn a lesson, and as corny as this may sound, a lesson of love.

Maybe the acknowledgment the love given to Harry from his mother being so important (and thus that is why he wanted to have it in his rebirth) it is the beginning of Voldemort's relisation of love.

I know this sounds incredibly corny. Sorry *blushes*
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I think the sacrifice of Lily only allowed Harry to live ....
As much as the sacrifice allowed Dumbledore to incant something that meant the blood of another family member would afford him protection when there and away from Hogwarts - I dont think it was Lily that did the real thing there - that was something Dumbledore put in place.
The question is I suppose what else could be in the blood?
The ultimate reason for this was to afford Harry protection - it meant that Voldemort couldnt touch him - well now he can.
So Dumbledore should have been a little upset that a large protection for Harry was now gone - but he has one of his 'looks' - this means either he is happy that protection is no longer there - or he knows of something else in Harry's blood that isnt apparant to us yet ...
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
What if the blood has something else in it? Wait, are we in speculation thread? Okay.

So, what if there was something in Harry's blood that Voldemort wanted? It's a good point that he thought Harry was going to die shortly after having the blood taken, so why would he want that protection removed? What if, like other people have speculated (in and out of the books) - part of Voldemort was transferred to Harry the night of the curse and Voldemort is trying to get it back?

Perhaps what he might have gotten back was what made Dumbledore a bit triumphant . . . maybe it won't do what Voldemort thinks, but will make him vulnerable to another kind of attack . . .
 

catchthesnitch

Curious Yellow
Perhaps there's an incompatibility factor here.

You know, like blood types or Rhesus factors. Maybe the "love" that flows through Harry via Lily will ultimately cause some sort of "allergic" reaction in Voldemort. Like a ticking time bomb. That's why maybe Dumbledore gave the wry smile.

Dumbledore knows that by using Harry's blood Voldemort's causing his own downfall.

Maybe Harry doesn't have to do anything at all to vanquish Voldemort and have the prophesy be fulfilled.

Maybe, with the blood sacrifice, Harry's already done it and its just a matter of time before the poison goes to work.
 

Nagini

Time Turners
Boing said:
What if the blood has something else in it? Wait, are we in speculation thread? Okay.

So, what if there was something in Harry's blood that Voldemort wanted? It's a good point that he thought Harry was going to die shortly after having the blood taken, so why would he want that protection removed? What if, like other people have speculated (in and out of the books) - part of Voldemort was transferred to Harry the night of the curse and Voldemort is trying to get it back?

Perhaps what he might have gotten back was what made Dumbledore a bit triumphant . . . maybe it won't do what Voldemort thinks, but will make him vulnerable to another kind of attack . . .

Now that is a good point you make Boing - nice one! :)

Yes of course, Voldemort wasn't planning on Harry living to tell all to Dumbledore and he wasn't planning on Harry being around to have the same sort of magic in his blood that Voldemort will have not that he has taken back what was transferred to Harry that fateful night.

Could this then be the power that the Dark Lord knows not do you think?
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
Nagini, I like the idea that this is the power the Dark Lord knows not. Very interesting.

CTS - I really want to think that there will be more to the showdown than just a slow death and all they have to do is stay out of Voldemort's way. I'd love for the face-to-face interaction, etc., so I'm voting for something more along the lines of vulnerability, not allergy.
 

Kingsley

Time Turners
I agree that it wont be more of a blood allergy thing because that sounds too muggle like--
What if this blood transference was like a two way radio--what if everytime Harry felt a strong enotion--Voldemort actually felt it--next book when a Weasley dies--and Harry gets upset about it--what if we see the panic it caused V--to finally have love in his blood but it also masks his enemy's love :cool:
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I wonder, if the 'thing' he got back inside that blood was a little more humanity?
We know that Voldemort had become something barely human - what if when he took the blood he also took another step back toward humanity - and as such vulnerable?
Dumbledore's look still worries me greatly - the guy just isn't right sometimes ...
 

Jenelle

Supreme Mugwump
I think that although their might very well be something in DD's expression, I believe that he was just giving Harry a reassuring gesture, to give him some hope-he wants Harry to win the fight with Voldemort(I think) but he also wants the prophecy to be fulfilled as well.
So I guess what I'm saying is that maybe DD is happy that he is back and perhaps that their is something in the blood that will help the good side, but also sad because he is back and he knows that Harry will be the target from then till the end.
 

Kingsley

Time Turners
No actually DD has only shown remorse in book 5--the rest of the series he is pretty stoic
If Dumbledore was hurt that much by the knowledge he received when Voldemort took Harry's blood he would have shared it--
Even in book 5 Dumbledore still did not disclose all of the information about the prophecy to Harry
One thing we can be sure of is that whatever situation the taking of the blood has caused--Dumbledore already knows of it :mad:
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
I still like the idea that there was something in the blood that makes Voldemort more vulnerable. Again, looking at the theory that there is much more to the prophecy than we are privy to, I think it makes sense that Dumbledore can feel triumphant - perhaps this was a part of the prophecy.

What if the exchange of blood signifies the "marking as an equal?" We have all assumed that the mark was the lightning bolt and the transference of some powers from Voldemort to Harry, but what if it has just happened here - they share the same blood now and are considered equals . . .
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
The first effects of this blood transfer seem to be a huge negative ... as in Harry looses a major security feature ... on face value does this mean Dumbledore is happy at this?

So - we are onto speculation and the premise that in fact it was a good thing that this happened - 2 ways of looking at that as well - one DiE and one unknown quality.
If the effect was to take away a magical protection - does that mean it also took away a magical property of Voldemort?
Could this yet again be another sign of Voldemort becoming more human?
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
Perhaps the thing that Voldemort did that seemed to have worked in conquering death was take away that part of him that could either feel human emotion or that part of him that was Muggle. Either way, that would mean that Harry has now infused him with one of those properties that he tried to get rid of before (and that seemed to have worked).

Unfortunately, I don't think Voldemort would be that stupid to invite something that he tried to get rid of back into his body.

So, I guess I'm back to Voldemort not realizing just what the effect of the blood transfer would do - that Voldemort thinks it gives him some special protection (or, at the very least, he thought it would mean that he could in the short term just kill Harry whereas he couldn't before) and now it will come back to bite him.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I think I said earlier as well - but it was also a pride thing for Voldemort to re-birth using the blood of the person that nearly ended his life!
He has an audience and it would have been nice of him to stand there and say - "look the blood of the person that killed me also bought me back to life" ...
I think they call it petty recrimination ... he acted for retribution and didnt realy think what he was absorbing back into his body ...
 
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