Centaurs Prediction


afraid of my own shadow
This was brought up on another forum i chat in (not a harry potter one though, so the answers aren't satisfactory).

is it possible that the warning Firenze gave 'The planets have been read wrongly before now, even by centaurs. I hope this is one of those times.' was referring to Voldemort being in the school, or looking into the future to the final battle?
We know they are secretive, but it is just silly for the centaurs to be wrong so soon...i mean, i like to think they have seen past Harry's successful escapes over the 6 years, to the final battle, where Firenze hopes they have read the planets wrong...
Actually the way I see that part - it seemed a little eerie ...
I wonder if perhaps that the centaurs have seen Potter die - It just seems to fit in with the tone of the conversation.
Of course - we could perhaps point towards the death of Dumbledore and them seeing it - but I think it would be more exciting as far as a story that what they are fearing was the fate of the person stood in front of them.
There is much debate on Harry's fate and this really isnt a topic I want to extend to in here ... but I feel it was loaded by JKR.
I think you are right not to go into Harry's fate here, but lets face it, he either lives or dies :p

what i want to understand, is whether the centaurs had looked further into the future than we were led to believe. I haven't got HBP here with me to check what Firenze has to say in it, but i like to think that Harry is going to prove them wrong, by surviving the final fight.
The centaurs seem to want to live in solitude.
Experience has probably shown them that the Wizarding world isnt trustworthy and as such they choose to live out there exisitance away from it all.
This doubt could also come from what they have observed in the stars.
It interested me when in OoTP there was that fountain that had the likes of a centau, house elf etc looking up at Wizarding folk - we know now the House Elfs are - I wonder if at the same time the Wizarding world did something to the centaurs - once again I am drifting.
I think there is something that the centaurs can read in the stars - not that I agree with it IRL - but for the matter of the books they seem to take something from their observations and Dumbledore seems to trust Firenze enough to have him teach Divination.
I think it is very possible and also probable that the Centaurs feel they have seen what will happen in the future with the wizarding world and decided not to intervene - otherwise they might get pulled into it.
Alas - it is a poor call on their behalf - because at some point Voldemort and his supporters are bound to come calling.
Hmm, I think that was a little 'Look at this, this says something about the 7th book' clue from JKR.

It either means that the Firenze is wrong and the centaurs were not proven wrong yet, just that Harry will die in the 7th book. Or it means just what was said, the centaurs were wrong about Harry's death the first time and so there is doubt to what they say.

Okay, does that make any sence to anybody else but me? :p
Well the centaurs live by the stars - that means they invest a lot of faith in them.
This would suggest there is something to it - but then again if you read horoscopes there is one person who that info applies to - it's a case of numbers and odd's.
But still I am a little more inclind to belive that the centaurs have faith in this star gazing based on their correct readings.
When I first read PS/SS, the centaurs discussion stood out at me even back then - there is something they are seeing that they felt should not be shared!
I am in the process of reading the series again. Good old HBP has changed how I view the entire series! :rolleyes: I've been curious about the significance of the things the centaurs have said. I think they are going to play a big part in Book 7.

Why are we given little reminders of the the centaurs? This following excerpt is from PoA, p. 265 (U.S. paperback version) and seems to come out of no where and go no where--so why put it in?
He had a very strange dream. He was walking through a forest, his Firebolt over his shoulder, following something silvery-white. It was winding its way through the trees ahead, and he could only catch glimpses of it between the leaves. Anxious to catch up with it, he sped up, but as he moved faster, so did his quarry. Harry broke into a run, and ahead he heard hooves gathering speed. Now he was running flat out, and ahead he could hear galloping. Then he turned a corner into a clearing and --
And of course Harry wakes up when Ron yells after Sirius attacks.
Silvery white screams to me memories - as in pensive memories ...
They are always described in that manner.
Maybe we will see someone produce a memory that leads to the centaurs - something that might help Harry?
I still think the centaurs are niave to think Voldemort wont come after them and that maybe they still have a bigger part in this series - notice JKR kept Firenze at Hogwarts in HBP ... a great link into the thinking and mindset of the centaurs ... and their star gazing!
Yes, and I'm looking especially for a reference I remember where Firenze (I think) said that you can't trust the readings. Everyone is putting so much stock in how the prophecy MUST be fulfilled. I don't think it does. Harry must play along to a certain extent because LV believes in the prophecy and won't let Harry alone. But I believe (hope!) that in the end Harry will do something other than fulfill the prophecy as it is written.
OotP, p. 604, U.S. Hardback Version
Frienze told them . . . that it was foolish to put much faith in such things anyway, because even centaurs sometimes read them wrongly . . . to impress upon them that nothing, not even centaur's knowledge, was foolproof.
I think this applies to the prophecy.
He had a very strange dream. He was walking through a forest, his Firebolt over his shoulder, following something silvery-white. It was winding its way through the trees ahead, and he could only catch glimpses of it between the leaves. Anxious to catch up with it, he sped up, but as he moved faster, so did his quarry. Harry broke into a run, and ahead he heard hooves gathering speed. Now he was running flat out, and ahead he could hear galloping. Then he turned a corner into a clearing and --
Actually on second reading of that and based on the book and things we learned later - it seems to follow patronus pretty well - as in what JKR said about patronuses being used as a way of communication within the order and also could be the patronus he starts to create in PoA ... just a couple of addon's to that :p
Yes, the silvery thing does sound like a patronus. I was particularly noticing the hooves and galloping references. I really believe the Centaurs have been telling us important things if we knew what we were looking for--likes Mars and Saturn. They seemed to come up with practically every casual (nonconfrontational)conversation Harry or Hagrid had with them outside of a classroom (Firenze). Is Firenze telling Harry the prophecy has been misunderstood?
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Umm here is where I struggle once again ...

On one hand we have Dumbledore saying the only people that knew about the prophecy was Dumbledore and Harry ... and JKR says she uses Dumbledore and Hermione to pass on facts ...

Then we have JKR answering a question about why the Longbottoms were attacked ...

JKR's website said:
The Lestranges were sent after Neville to kill him.

Answer: No, they weren't. They were very definitely sent after Neville's parents. I can't say too much about this because it touches too closely on the prophecy and how many people knew about it, but the Lestranges were not in on the secret.

Then the suggestion that the centaurs might also be aware ...

Thing is - there is some contradition here me thinks .... worse of all and most delicous is JKR's comments!
I'm thinking that the Centaurs have read the stars for themselves. Perhaps it's a way to have a second witness to possible future events? It just bugs me that DD was willing to let Firenze be completely ostricized from his group to come and teach at Hogwarts. DD had to have done it because he knew eventually he'd return as Headmaster, and he needed to keep Divination as a subject to protect Trelawney. That was quite a lot to ask of Firenze. And what happens to Trelawney now that DD is "gone"?
Ohh please don't get me wrong - I was more postulating exactly what was the truth about how many people knew about the prophecy - I think you are right and they may have seen something in the stars - look right back to PS/SS when Firenze is warned not to give details of the future or interfere when the centaurs worked out that the boy he saved was Harry Potter!
It just intrigues me how and why the knowledge of the prophecy would still need to be under wraps by JKR ...
I think it is more than plausible that the centaurs have seen it written in the stars and might have a more accurate finishing to the story than what Dumbledore made of it - lets face it I have seen numerous thoughts on the dissection of the prophecy and what it meant - and JKR did say she/Sybil worded it very carefully!
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Well, a lot of people know there's a prophecy but not what's in it. And, as you suggested, the Centaurs may have read the stars differently than DD has. I think Trelawney is in deep kimshee in Book 7, if LV is still seeking the prophecy. Surely Snape told him who the seer had been when he told LV originally. With DD gone, she's certainly the only one left--besides Harry himself. And McG doesn't like Trelawney. Will McG continue divination? Does she know what Firenze sacrificed to help DD (and Harry)?

And what does JK have in mind that she needed to word the prophecy so carefully about?
Slight divertion - but do you think Snape ever told Voldemort who made the prediction/prophecy to Dumbledore?
I'm going with a no - and another indicater that Snape is more loyal to Dumbledore ...

Actually I am liking the idea more and more the centaurs are seeing something different in that prophecy/prediction/future happening - there is no denying that the centaurs didnt want what was seen discussed with Harry - I wonder if Harry could get Firenze to fully disclose the details and thoughts of the centaurs.
It is more exciting than it sounds - anything that can make what appears on face value to be a easy to follow prophecy more elaborative must be embraced!
My feeling is that Snape probably told LV who told the prediction--if he knew who it was. I believe that was before he turned to the right side.

Yes, don't you think Firenze should play a part in this somehow? He was so supportive of Harry in SS/PS and then sacrificed so much to help DD. He's one of those that I think has earned a piece of this pie in some way.
Well the centaurs have lived a long time - and pretty much self reliant - so they are doing something right. Even when Voldemort was at his height I dont think he ever went into the Forbidden Forest after the centaurs - so I am guessing they are pretty much classed as untouchable.
Given their thoughts and views on stargazing - you have to assume they are seeing something in there that is right ... I wonder if they are known for it?
If so - could be that they become a 'tool' for Voldemort ... I think he is very keen to know what is coming this next time after the last time!