Centaurs Prediction

This confuses me - Lord Voldemort despises anything that isn't pure blood, yet is happy to get the Giants on side (and sarcastically i wonder why) yet he seems to have left the centaurs alone.
Why? They are self sufficient, intelligent beings, that could spread the word of Voldemort's evilness. You would think he would wipe them out.
But then, they don't seem to take sides. They ignore the world around them therefore causing no problems for either side.
Has that balance been disturbed by Firenze? I would think it has, but what it means, I don't know.
Their predictions may have included their own reactions to what is going on, hence not wanting to share them with anyone.
I am still tossing up how far ahead JKR was thinking when she wrote about their original predictions, but i am beginning to suspect they didn't just involve Harry.
I believe the centaurs predictions are more general than that. there a re billions of stars, and to read just one boys future from them is just a little too hard to believe.

if you are still following my drift here,i think they have seen much more than Harry's fate, but rather the fate of the wizarding/magical world.
Or perhaps even two sides to it - if Voldemort defeats Harry and vice versa. They wouldn't want to tell Harry what they had seen, because that would add a lot of pressure on to Harry. Imagine if he already knew the outcome...would he slack off and therefore risk the fates changing, or would he go nuts wondering how on earth he gets to that ending?
Yes, isn't that the challenge that comes from knowing the future? Ever read anything by Robert Heinlein? He was a SciFi writer beginning in the 1930s up to the 1990s. His earlier stuff, I think, was his best, and he received several Hugo Awards. He wrote a short story about a guy who created a machine that could tell the exact date someone would die. The insurance companies wigged out. Uhh...sorry--started wandering down the garden path there . . .:eek:

It is very curious that LV seems not to have approached the Centaurs--but maybe he did? They seem rather testy, generally. And I agree with you that they probably see a much larger picture than Harry Potter, but I remember how forceful Firenze was about Harry right from the very beginning (bolding & italics are mine):
"Firenze!" Bane thundered. "What are you doing? You have a human on your back! Have you no shame? Are you a common mule?"

"Do you realize who this is?" said Firenze. "This is the Potter boy. The quicker he leaves this forest, the better." . . .

Firenze suddenly reared on to his hind legs in anger, so that Harry had to grab his shoulders to stay on.

"Do you not see that unicorn?" Firenze bellowed at Bane. "Do you not understand why it was killed? Or have the planets not let you in on that secret? I set myself against what is lurking in this forest, Bane, yes, with humans alongside me if I must."
I'm sure this is why Firenze sacrificed everything to come and teach at Hogwarts.
From Firenze's comments there I think it suggests he personally saw something to do with Voldemort and decided to do all he could to try and prevent it ...
His remarks suggest he has set himself against what was in that forest - the same thing that killed the unicorn for blood - and he would fight side by side with the humans to rid the world of him ...
What it suggests most is perhaps he can see the centaurs being attacked or defeated by Voldemort and he decided to try and 'fight the future' rather than ignore or hide from it!
And perhaps he agrees with DD in this issue--fight evil wherever you find it rather than hide from it and hope it won't notice you?
I agree but feel there is more too it - to be so confrontational with the herd - to do what he later did and be outcast from the centaurs - whatever he saw in the stars, he knows that Voldemort has to be stopped or something bad is going to happen - and I'm not all that sure it is all linked to the welfare of Harry - something big would come if/when Voldemort returns - I think we are seeing that now as we are preparing for war in many factions of the magical world ...
"Do you not see that unicorn?" Firenze bellowed at Bane. "Do you not understand why it was killed? Or have the planets not let you in on that secret? I set myself against what is lurking in this forest, Bane, yes, with humans alongside me if I must."
This sounds as though Firenze is mocking the Centaurs' "reading" of the planets. Is that because he has seen it differently or perhaps interprets it differently? He certainly sees it as enough of a threat to make a lot of personal sacrifices for his beliefs.
LOL - never read it that way before until you highlighted it - you think he was being sarcastic?
I like it only because I never saw it that way before - would be kind of funny if he is mocking something the centaurs have lived their lives by for so long and would have stood against him even more when he was booted out of the herd!
Nice pickup :D
Well, I certainly think Firenze has chosen a course of action different from the others. Will he remain alone when the final battle comes?
I think there is a chance when the centaurs really see what is happening that Firenze may act as a bridge between the races to allow a unified stance.
While Firenze may see or even read things different to his people - I feel he still wants to be part of them and looks ay his exclusion from the herd as a way to try and make things right with what he knows and also eventually to return to his people. Perhaps what he saw suggests that in a while he will get to go back - hence why he stood up and was kicked out?
I hope so. They're certainly cool characters, and they were important enough to be included in the fountain at the MoM. In fact, could looking at who was included in the fountain be a clue to which groups will be important? There are other magical creatures that were not included in the fountain. I wonder why. I also wonder if SPEW is in the books only for laughs. Will the house elves be more involved since they are included in the fountain? I wonder if Dobby could have been involved if DD faked his death. Dobby makes a comment about being willing to throw himself off the highest tower for DD.

It would be nice if Firenze saw in the future a time he would be accepted back in the herd. But it speaks loads to his strength of character if he did not and was still willing to take the path he did in supporting Harry and DD.
I noticed OoTP threw up some interesting comments from Firenze on the matters of Stargazing and the future ...

OoTP The Centaur and the sneak said:
'..and observe the heavens. Here is written, for those who can see, the fortunes of our races.'

' ..and that you have mapped the stars' progress through the heavens. Centaurs have unravelled the mysteries of these movements over centuries. Our findings teach us that the future may be glimpsed in the sky above us -'

'..I, however, am here to explain the wisdom of centaurs, which is impersonal and impartial. We watch the skies for the great tides of evil or change that are sometimes marked there. It may take ten years to be sure of what we are seeing,'

'In the past decade, the indications have been that wizardkind is living through nothing more than a brief calm between two wars. Mars, bringer of battle, shines brightly above us, suggesting that the fight must break out again..'
Then shortly after this Firenze then dismisses putting too much faith in these things - so it does make you wonder!
Yes, and if the prophecy turns out to have really meant nothing (except to sucker LV), JK can say she warned us?
The last quote suggests they were seeing the ressurection of the Dark Lord - but that isnt to say they see the prophecy ...
They might see it as it is - the prophecy was possibly made up etc but most important it wasnt a big thing - it was only made so because of Voldemort's belief in it ...
The most important thing is they must have seen that when the Dark Lord was supposedly killed he wasnt and they were seeing him coming back to complete the second war ...
... or perhaps they classed war one was Grindelwald and the second war as Voldemort?
If this is the case - what they are seeing could be more interesting!
I'm not suggesting the prophecy was made up. I think Trelawney truly "saw" something. The question is how accurate it is that long before an event. Are there no opportunities to change the future--like Scrooge?
Well see this is where the future is different from the past - this means changing the whole lot.
The past is a record of what has happened - it is factual and etched in time - as such it can be read and changed ...
The future has still not happened and as such is still fully capable of being affected and changed by current events - there is no constant - and I think JKR expresses this throughout her books ...
The prophecy is a reflection of what was to come before any made any changes - if Sybil was capable of re-seeing that prophecy - would it play the same?
I don't think so - I think Dumbledore has already tried to change the future - we may play to the same conclusion but I think Dumbledore has tried to make changes to the outcome he saw ... thus denying the future ...
Unless - he really believes in it - then he would leave everything alone to come to the logical conclusion ... but we also know he does cast doubts on the validity of the prophecy himself - just words that were made real because someone took them literally ...

My point is - if the centaurs saw this coming - they didn't have the prophecy - so their view could be adaptable and changeable - they might see the subtle changes and the different outcome ...
Especially if they keep reading the stars. Poor Trelawney's only made two prophecies--and doesn't remember either one! The Centaurs can keep updating.
Exactly - I would really like to see a re-reading of the contents of that Prophecy now we have had 16 years pass and Voldemort did try to attack the chosen one.
Dumbledore's words about Voldemort already having been vanquished does make me wonder if indeed the prophecy is still accurate, or since the vanquish has taken place it will give more details on the eventual outcome.
This prophecy was made well before the attacks - as such did it take into account the freaky backfire?
We know no-one has ever survived the AK before - as such did the prophecy see it?
Still would be great to actually hear or see what the centaurs were seeing and the impact of that based on the prophecy and events as they transpired!
Yes, and it feels like the Centaurs and all their "Mars is bright tonight" and references to Saturn and Mars and then Firenze's classes should play a role of some kind in Book 7. Otherwise, with the exception of Firenze saving Harry in the Forbidden Forest and taking over Divination (rather than allowing Dolores to do away with the subject and Trelawney to be out in the world and prey for LV), what have the Centaurs obviously done to further the plot?

And speaking of Dolores doing away with the subject, we know how McG feels about it--and Trelawney. Will Divination be back next year? Oh, now that I think of it, DD must have provided some kind of instructions if only for Firenze. Where would he go?

I think Trelawney is a target (if LV is still seeking the prophecy) even if she stays, and Hogwarts should seem more vulnerable with DD gone. And Trelawney kept muttering about going somewhere she is appreciated. She has no idea the danger she's in. If she was thinking of leaving, with McG's rather open animosity, will she leave on her own?
Alz said:
Dumbledore's words about Voldemort already having been vanquished does make me wonder if indeed the prophecy is still accurate
You know, when I was reading this again, I realized the prophecy could have been referring to what happened at GH as the vanquishing as that's exactly the term DD used to described what happened. So if that part of the prophecy has already been fulfilled, what next?
See this could be the clever thing by JKR - we are all still sure Harry has to vanquish Voldemort - yet why did JKR use the exact same words to describe what happened to the Dark Lord that night?
It could be that we are looking at the prophecy wrong and it is indeed 2 parts - the first part has been played out and in fact the second part is a different matter ...
Harry vanquished the Dark Lord - now we are left with either having to die at the hands of the other - we know this is the case as Voldemort wont stop till Harry is dead ...
Maybe this is anothet thread - but I do wonder if perhaps we could learn the more up-to-date versions of the fates for Harry and Voldemort given all that has happened in the past and the impact on future events ...