Destructing Houses

Blaise said:
Interesting theory Atticus - never heard that one before!
Umm - I suppose that takes some breaking down to understand it ...
are you saying the house full of everyone's emotions are what bought the house down?
Because it seems that people's emotions were triggers at different times - James and Lily collectively coupled with Voldemort's - then Voldemort and James - Lily and Harry - Voldemort & Lily - Voldemort and Harry ....
Unless it was a growing energy based on the chain of effects - then it would be hard to narrow only one as being the trigger ...
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Thank you very much, and let me amend a bit. I was unsure of which person I would have placed the responsibility on before hand and did not properly edit. Dumb mistake, especially for me.

Let me clarify.

I do not think it was a chain reaction. I am pretty sure it was only one person's emotions. It could have been either of Harry's parents (for them, it could have been intentional) or Harry himself.
If it were Lily or James, more likely Lily, I would think that with her blood protection, she hoped that bringing down the house would kill Voldemort but not Harry. In this instance, her death and the attempted curse on Harry would have had to been very quick. No time for villianous speeches or the like. However, I tend to think it was Harry. It was such a primal reaction to seeing his mother die, he did not have to have any conciousness of it.

In the alternative, though, I am also still a big fan of the rebound theory. Frankly, it could have been a combination of the rebound effect, Harry's emotional response to his mother AND his primal instinct to protect himself.

Thoughts? Flames? Chocolates?

atticus

PS Thank you everyone for the warm welcome!
 
catchthesnitch said:
A quote for thought:



Not calling a judgment here, but isn't that quote food for thought. You guys have at it, but if the AK curse didn't do it, could little ickle baby Harry have done it somehow?
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I don't think he meant he literally wouldn't blow up the house, I think he meant he would wreak things. Harry doesn't even know he is a wizard at this point.
 
I like the idea of Harry making the house colapse as an instinct to seeing his mother die. He did many other magical things out of emotion at the Dursely's like making his hair grow back, or Dudley's old sweater shrink so it would not fit him or making his teacher's wig turn blue. Feeling a very powerful loss, perhaps he reacted by making the house crumble.
 
I think given the details Atticus posted that Lily would have been the most likely trigger ...
I get the feeling that whatever she did with her 'charm' was a catalyst for a sudden chain of effects...
After killing Lily I dont think Voldemort hung around - he turned to attack Harry and cast away ...
I am of the thinking that the essence or even the soul of Lily was still present - maybe fading at the time and it was this that caused the unpredictable effects - and also caused the house to implode ...
Other possiblity is that he didnt even get to cast at Harry and the effects of the blast and Voldemort being removed from the body came from attacking Lily ...
 
I actually like the idea of Harry's emotions getting the better of him (power he knows not). Even as a one year-old, I think he could be very sad/angry/etc. He would be confused and not know how to express himself except by crying out or just feeling emotion.

As for Lily having some sort of effect, I'm not sure on that one. Not sure how long people's souls hang around and what they could actually do while there - I'm thinking of James here. If he was still hanging around, why didn't he do something when Voldemort was going after Lily and Harry? Or are you saying that Lily was special in this way - that for some reason her soul would have stuck around?
 
I'm not sure - and doubt anyone else can really answer how emotionally aware we are at 1 years old ... I get to thinking it probably isn't that much ..
I think you can obviously fee pain, hunger etc but to have real raw anger, grief etc - I just don't see it - sorry :(

We are told that Lily was unique - the best witch of her time ... we also know she was a charms master ... I wonder if she took steps herself once she knew Harry was in the frame for termination?
We know someone can be ripped from their body post AK - and I do wonder what happens to those souls post AK - I just think Lily given her extraordinary powers and grasp of old magic was still able to effect events because of the fear of her child dying?
 
Blaise said:
We are told that Lily was unique - the best witch of her time ... we also know she was a charms master ...
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Granted its a bit OT, but who do we know that has also been referred to in such terms and proven her gift with charms? You know me, I see Hermione everywhere!

Now, to your post, I am perfectly willing to support a theory of Lily as the catalyst. If she put such a powerful charm on Harry that all the curse did was to cut him, it must have been a heckuva rebound when that cursed bounced back. I think it could have brought the house down.

atticus
 
I'm still on board with the idea that it is a backfired spell - a really doozy that, when it backfired, it pretty much destroyed everything . . .

Now, I have posted in another thread that it might be possible that Voldemort had developed a curse which would "steal" death from someone else and he is using whatever it is that he steals to ensure his own immortality. What if he tried to use this curse on Harry and when it backfired, we see that indeed, he was ripped from his body, and everything around was destroyed.

Does anyone else (aside from Blaise :D ) think it is possible that the curse Voldemort performed was NOT Avada Kedavra?
 
I'm with you Boing. I'm kinda liking the "death eater curse" but I'm not sure yet. But as I have posted before I also dont think its the AK that he used. If it was then it wouldnt leave a mark, and I'm sure someone in the magical world would be able to tell what it is, I'm thinking DD or someone could tell if it was the AK, but no one has spoken up. But as I said I'm not sure I will have to wait and see - so dont slaughter me for saying that yet lol!
 
Boing said:
Does anyone else (aside from Blaise :D ) think it is possible that the curse Voldemort performed was NOT Avada Kedavra?
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I agree with the possibility, but find it suspect that when it came to trying to kill Harry the second time around, AK was used as well. Now I know some of you will counter that Voldy knew better than to use the other one because it would rebound, but I just don't know.

atticus
 
You know, and this is what still grabs me about this - AK cannot be blocked ...
I am sure it is even written that way as well - you cant block it ...
As such - the effect of a rebound still supports the theory that wasnt the spell Voldemort was trying to use on young Potter ...
We also know that AK doesnt leave a mark - well the house was destroyed ... once again I question if indeed AK was used ...
Compelling is the evidence to suggest that AK was the curse of choice - but post casting - the effects are alien ...
Also - that spell was never in the Priori Incantem moment ... so I really question if indeed it was employed ...
I know that Lily cast a protection and sacrifice and this could have made the spell react in a different manner than the usual planned and desired effects - but still - it just doesnt seem to sit right with me and never has ... the force to bring the house down just seems like a concealing moment - like someone was trying to hide something ...
 
I guess the best evidence for what possibly happened to the Potter's house was revealed in OotP when Voldemort shot the AK at Dumbledore, it rebounded of the statue and hit the guards desk and the desk exploded into flames.

If James put up a valiant fight against Voldemort before he finally died, there was probably curses flying everywhere. AK doesn't mark the body, but when it doesn't hit it's intended target it seems to do much damage. Two or three missed AKs would be enough to destroy the house, and the one that rebounded off of Harry might have been extra potent because of Lily's protection and the power the Dark Lord knows not.
 
I guess the best evidence for what possibly happened to the Potter's house was revealed in OotP when Voldemort shot the AK at Dumbledore, it rebounded of the statue and hit the guards desk and the desk exploded into flames.

If James put up a valiant fight against Voldemort before he finally died, there was probably curses flying everywhere. AK doesn't mark the body, but when it doesn't hit it's intended target it seems to do much damage. Two or three missed AKs would be enough to destroy the house, and the one that rebounded off of Harry might have been extra potent because of Lily's protection and the power the Dark Lord knows not.
 
Yah I can see your point and perhaps the most compelling argument to support what happened - but to smash some statues versus destroy a house - that seems to be a lot of curses ...
I know what you are saying - the spell's execution and conclusion was very abnormal - but still I think there is more to the house being levelled than just a charmed, backfired spell ...
I think it is possible someone was trying to cover up - there was always the question of another person present - and as much as I can see both sides that say there was an wasnt - i just wonder if perhaps this is another 'hidden' clue we could all kick ourselves over?
 
Although it was never mentioned in the book, JKR said that Wormtail went into the house to get Voldemort's wand and robes. I wonder if he was there the entire time? The speculation that Snape was possibly there has been said, but If Wormtail was there with Voldemort, it's possible that James could have shot a few curses at him as well. I don't think she'd reveal to us that Wormtail was there if he had been any part of the confrontation, just so she could explain how Voldemort got his wand back. The way I took her comment was that Wormtail happened along after the Potter's were dead and Voldemort was gone.

Bellatrix mentioned that you have to really mean them, (the curses). Under the circumstances of that night, maybe there was a little more emotion behind the curses being used. It seems that Voldemort had more reasons to be at the Potter's then just to kill Harry. If James had faced Voldemort three times before and walked away, I'm sure that the curses were being conjured with a great deal of emotion behind them, possibly making their effect even more powerful and destructive.
 
Tonks said:
Alright, well, to take the easiest way out -- we know the Killing Curse itself leaves no mark, but what about the backfired Killing Curse? It's not like its ever happened before so no proof unless someone asks JKR, but the result is much different from that of the Killing Curse, so what's to say there aren't any side effects, such as Harry's scar, or even a destroyed house. ;)

Otherwise, if we are going to go with someone else is there, what's to say there wasn't another Death Eater there helping Voldemort (not with the actual killing obviously, but with little servant-y type tasks). ;) I think there's a possibility that he brought some backup, not that he would need it, but just because.
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I think this is a very good point. Harry is a really Powerfull wizard and so is Voldemort... that night there was too much power being released... and maybe ...when it backfired it also brought some of Harry's power...
or as one said it could be death eaters looking for what had happened to their master. Both theories suit the plot.:p
 
I hadn't read or heard that Wormtail went to Godric's Hollow to get Voldemort's wand and robes, but if we take this as fact then I think it's distinctly possible he blew up the house and reduced it to ruins.

Afterall, we know that when cornered by Sirius he 'blew apart the street with the wand behind his back'. The fact that it killed all within 20 feet of him suggests to me great destruction and I envisage the same at Godric's Hollow. maybe that's his spell by choice?

As to what motive he had for this I'm not sure, but it could have been to try to disguise the situation. Afterall, we know from Sirius that feelings towards him from the DEs captured in Azkaban was murderous. They believed it was him that had lead Voldemort to his downfall. Maybe this was his first attempt to trick the DEs into believing he'd been killed when the house was destroyed (if other DEs had known he went with Voldemort to show where the Potters were hidden) and he performed the same spell again when Sirius found him.....
 
This would also answer several other questions - like who let Dumbledore/Order know what had happened.
We know that Sirius went straight there after he realised Peter wasnt where he was suppose to be - yet we know Hagrid arrived and was under instruction from Dumbledore.
What this idea doesnt help with - why Black was accused for so long as being the person that lead Voldemort to the Potters - if Pettigrew had alerted Dumbledore, Dumbledore might have made the link.
I am always mindful of something JKR said once - Bellatrix and her fellow DE's were ordered to the Longbottoms by someone, and they were after the Longbottom parents and not Neville ... not sure but these seems to fit into here as well - whoever sent them after the Longbottoms sent them on the understanding that the Longbottoms had information on Voldemort's whereabouts!
 
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