Dumbledore and Dark Magic


Time Turners
I have thinking alot about Dumbledore and with the last book growing closer I thought I would post some thought and idea's before we all log off to enjoy are books.

We know some things like Dumbledore defeated Grindlewald, but we don't know how. Is it possible that he killed him! or simply destroyed his powers. If he killed him, is this not still an act of evil which would rip his soul?. Does the act of killing someone have more to do with the feeling or emotion behind the kill in order for it to be evil (ie: need to, or accident vs wanting to or on purpose) like the unforgiveable curses were Bellatrix tell's Harry you have to mean them, to really cause pain, to enjoy it - righteous anger won't hurt me.

Assuming, the soul would be ripped reguardless, what would Dumbledore do with the part of his soul that was ripped? Would he make a Horcrux to preserve his soul? McGonagall eludes to in book 1 that Dumbledore is to noble to use the powers that Voldemort uses. Meaning he knows what and how but chooses not to use them. Dumbledore seems to know alot about Horcrux's to the extent that he suspected Voldemort of making them when he failed to kill Harry, and that it was likely Slughorn who first told Voldemort about them.

Making the actual Horcrux is not evil, it is the act of killing that rips the soul that would be the evil part. Could he have used Dark magic for a positive reason?

What would Dumbledore use as his Horcrux, Gryffindor's sword, Fawkes, or something from his office? Gryffindors sword Dumbledore said that it remains safely in his office, Fawkes is loyal to its owner and can never die.

Then there is his scar, Dumbledore tells us in book 1" Scars can come in useful. I have one myself above my left knee which is a perfect map of the London Underground". We know to some extent why Harry's scar is useful, but why is Dumbledores useful and how does a map of London Underground fit in? Could this be where his Horcrux will be found?


Time Turners
...and if you made a Phoenix into a Horcrux, what would that imply about your immortality :)

(Hey, I don't really believe this stuff...it's just that it is fun to take a thread and run with it.)


Time Turners
Interesting Arwan.

I think if Dumbledore has made a Horcrux I don't think it would be something he would hide in his office. I like where you are going with the comment Dumbledore made in PS/PP. Maybe the map of London Undergroung on his knee is a map to find something. Maybe not his horcrux, maybe it is something more important.

I also like the theory that maybe he has made Fawkes into a horcrux. As Gbogbo pointed out it would ensure his immortality. Very smart.

Yet again maybe it is nothing, but we never know when it comes to JKR. I guess we will find out though. Good spotting Arwan.

Hoggy Warty Hogwarts

Outside Playing Quidditch
I think its interesting... but i will say this,
Dumbledore to me reminds me of someone who would do what he has to do and then move on, wouldnt he want to pass on to the next life and not make a horcrux like he says death is but the next adventure...
especially if hes lost loved ones wouldnt he want to see them again unless he destroys his own horcrux but even then i dont know if he would make it because he would have to kill someone and even though that factor is possible i dont think he would want to do that to his soul...

On another note, maybe the scar is a link to something to do with Harry but then again i doubt it because i cant see it being helpful for anything, i think im just rambling now LOL..


I don't think Dumbledore would make a horcrux. I can't see him wanting to reamin immortal. If he wanted to he probably would have taken the elixir of life.

I think he is too noble to use dark magic even to defeat someone.

The scar always interests me. Was it a passing comment or will mean something? Will we even learn how he acquired it?
I've never believed that DD would make a horcrux, that's dark magic and I think he would be above doing such a thing. I mean, if Harry finds out his hero, the man he's called the greatest wizard alive on many occasions and shown his unwavering loyalty to on even more occasions, would stoop so low as to murder someone as part of a spell, he'd be devestated.. However, as this book is built on relationships and similarities, I FULLY believe there is a "good magic" version of the horcrux. How it works, and if it will show up, I have no idea.

Hoggy Warty Hogwarts

Outside Playing Quidditch
I quite agree VOLD.E.MORT my thoughts exactly, i dont think Dumbledore would make a Horcrux i just never pictured him the type to do such a thing, unless there was a way to make a "good Horcrux" so to speak.


Staff member
See we have to be careful assuming that defeating Grindelwald was akin to killing him - this is the easy assumption we all make from that factette but you know what happens when we assume.
It reminds me a great deal about the use of the word vanquish in the prophecy, I think there is intended implication in the words but closer examination would yield other results.
I dont believe Dumbledore would make a horcrux, it would almost be akin to being a hypocrite, I do wonder if perhaps Grindelwald was Dumbledore's first encounter with horcruxes, hence banning of them at Hogwarts.


Time Turners
Wow, I had totally forgotten DD's Scar! What if it was an injury he had sustained in his battle with Grindelwald which linked them similar to Harry and Voldemort?

I must agree with some of those above in that DD would most definitely not construct a Horcrux. When it is spoken about by Sluggy, It was specifically murder and I don't believe all killing is murder. Though I do believe if DD had no choice but to kill in order to protect one of his students, he would kill.
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Time Turners
In my opinion, I think JKR just put Dumbledore's scar in the book as a joke. I didn't think of it too much when I re-read the book. I think it's just something funny that Dumbledore said. Don't know if I'm making sense. he he...


Time Turners
So what everyone is saying is they believe there is a difference in the type of kill.
A need to or by accident will not rip ones soul.

I don't believe that Dumbledore actually killed Grindlewald, but was just somehow able to defeat him. much like I think will happen with Harry.


Sherbet Lemon
Arwan, there is a difference in killing someone and murdering someone.

To give you a good example, Mr X kills Mr Y for his own gain, or pleasure, then it is called murder. That type of murder has dark intention behind it. It rips soul from the guilt.
But then that same Mr X is caught, and sentenced to death. That is not a murder. It can be defined as rightful kill. That type of killing doesnt have dark intention behind it, or any sort of guilt and ripped soul.
Dumbledore killed Grindenwald because it was necessary for the good will of wizarding community. It was a kill, not a murder. That type of kill doesnt have dark intention, and therefore no horcrux creation in involved.

To create a horcrux, you have to have that intention to kill for personal gain. you have to murder someone in cold blood so you can make a horcrux with your ripped soul. That is dark magic at its highest.
Die theorists wont stop until book 7 comes out. And may not stop even after it. :D
I agree that not all DD's deeds were true and light. He could have caused some serious harm by making some decisions.....

But for DD to create a horcrux, is as ridiculous as Filch to become Minister of Magic.


Staff member
We had this before - it is like murder one and murder two I believe ...
Murder one was full of intention and knowing what you were doing - murder two is an act that lead to a murder but with no real intention.
I do believe horcruxes need murder one and not murder two - it is an act of evil - you have to mean to want to go out there and kill!


Time Turners
I'm of the belief that Dumbledore's evil, so I think he did indeed make Fawkes his Horcrux. After all, no man can live to be 150 NATURALLY...Flamel did it with the Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone, but I don't know how Dumbledore did it...:confused:


Sherbet Lemon
Horntail, you are forgetting. DD is not an ordinary man. He is a wizard. And a thumpin' good one, as Hagrid would put it.
Wizards do have longer life. I suggest "History of Magic" book to you. Excellent read and lots of knowledge. :D
I cant change how some think that Dumbledore is Evil. But I am ready to wager anything you want, because I say he doesnt have a horcrux.
Any takers????

He did things his own way. He looked for the best possible solution in days of Grindenwald, then first war, and now with Harry.
He probably sacrificed a bit more than some would have wanted, but saying that he is Evil, just doesnt make sense. Not to me, anyways....... :)