Dumbledore's Watch

Weasleyfanforever

Time Turners
OK, I have wondered about this for some time, and I just decided to post it up to see if anyone has any thoughts. We are introduced to Dumbledore's unique watch in PS/SS:

PS/SS said:
Dumbledore gave a great sniff as he took a golden watch from his pocket and examined it. It was a very odd watch. It had twelve hands but no numbers; instead, little planets were moving around the edge.

It is mentioned again in OotP, after Dumbledore begins talking to Fudge:

OotP said:
Dumbledore pulled a watch with twelve hands from his pocket and surveyed it'…

Could there be something special about this watch, and if so, what is it? We know that Molly Weasley has the special clock in her kitchen, and I was wondering if this could be similar to hers?
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
OohhHh that is interesting!!
Number 12 again I see as well ....

OK, anyone here the saying 'Time and space matter in magic Potter' ....
We have a clock with little planets ...
We know that the centaurs use the stars to gauge the future ...

Wondering - just wondering - could this be an elaborate timeturner?
I know it goes against all I have said ... but it does seem rather unusal ...
I wonder if the 12 hands are fixed on certain times, periods or events?

I need to think on - but I am loving this! :D
 

MissWhizbee

Time Turners
So I just read the Golden Compass, by Pullman, and in this book there is a device that seems very similar to DD's watch (infact, DD watch was the very first thing that came to mind when this device was described in the book). This device tells the truth when asked a question, I wonder if DD's watch isn't something similar. I don't know much about astrology or fortune telling but perhaps by the placement of the planets in relation to the dials he is able to discern some sort of truth from the situation that is happening at the moment or maybe he thinks of a question and then the hands of the watch respond to his thoughts and the planets align to give him a cosmic answer.

Thats my best guess ;)
 

Weasleyfanforever

Time Turners
I am really liking that it has something to do with travelling and time. I am not sure what it is about this watch, but it is so far from the ordinary, and there is only one other clock that is mentioned that is really odd, and that is the Weasley Clock. I am wondering if this one sort of works in a similar fashion, perhaps giving Dumbledore clues to where people are, and if they are in danger.... Really out there, but I don't know....
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Yah, I can see the point you are making with regards to the Weasley's - but I would have thought he had more than 12 people to look after being the headmaster - or perhaps it is just 12 special people he is tracking?

With regards to MW point - I wonder if that fits?
I will need to track the references and see what was going on at the time ... really I should have done that already ...

I think the fact is was mentioned twice - references 12 and is time related - defo worth more investigating :p
 

Nagini

Time Turners
Oooh nice observation Weezy! :)

Do you know what this reminds me of? JK Rowling's site where she has the watch. You cant click on the watch and I wondered why it was there. But if you wait a while a wind comes and the hands change. The hand goes round faster and the numbers disapear to be replaced by circles - or at least it looks like circles. Some are bigger than others - do you think they could be planets?

Perhaps this is JKR's way of making a reference to time travel?
 

Tinkerbell

Time Turners
Nagini said:
Oooh nice observation Weezy! :)

Do you know what this reminds me of? JK Rowling's site where she has the watch. You cant click on the watch and I wondered why it was there. But if you wait a while a wind comes and the hands change. The hand goes round faster and the numbers disapear to be replaced by circles - or at least it looks like circles. Some are bigger than others - do you think they could be planets?

Perhaps this is JKR's way of making a reference to time travel?


Wow, I have never noticed this before Gini! Good eyes you have there mate!

I also wonder whether this watch has anything to do with the fact that Dumbledore seems to know everything that is going on in Hogwarts - maybe it is a little like a CCTV camera and he can tune into anywhere in the castle and watch what is going on!!
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
MissWhizbee - another good thought. This does seem to be close to the alethiometer in Pullman's books. Hmmmm. I think that even if it is not exactly a "truth teller" that it could definitely be a way to tell what is going on with regard to the planets and their alignment. The twelve hands are interesting and perhaps point to the different relationships between the planets and that gives Dumbledore some indication of what to expect next or what people's emotions will be like at that moment.

The time travel theory is interesting, but I'm just not sure why he would consult the watch if it just had specific events that he could travel to . . . unless it's sort of a watch of the timeline of Voldemort's downfall.

Now this is kind of silly, but that made me think of Back to the Future (the movie) where the picture of the kids starts to fade and the kids disappear because the future isn't turning out the right way, but then when the parents kiss at the dance, everything comes back into focus . . . wacky here, but what if the watch is similar? As I said above, what if it is a timeline of Voldemort's downfall and Dumbledore is checking it to make sure that events are unfolding as they are supposed to in order for Voldemort to be defeated in the future . . . perhaps there are twelve key events that need to take place to set the stage correctly .. .
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
As far as time - I think they are checkpoints of when and where Dumbledore messed with time - by recording and monitoring the events - he can ensure he is on the right track ...
There might be 12 events in the timelines that required Dumbledore to make changes - as he keeps moving backwards and forwards - he uses the watch to make sure a change he makes doesnt impact another event - if that makes sense?

Gini - where is that watch?
The only one I have ever seen is the one on the front page and it shows the correct time - as in the hands move first off to adjust to your local time ...
I need to go investigate that some more - so where is it please!
 

Nagini

Time Turners
I like that idea that Dumbledore has 12 check points in time he has to make for everything to run as he plans.

The watch is am referring to is indeed the watch on the front page Blaise - if you go to the site, wait a while, you get music too. Then a wind blows, the watch glows then the face changes - once the wind has gone, it goes back to normal. Check it out and let me know what you think the circles could be. :)
 

Weasleyfanforever

Time Turners
I really like this idea as well. I think that Dumbledore has come back from the future and has to do these things in order for his side to be victorious in the end. I really like the idea of the planets pertaining to future events and such, because I think it could be perhaps a link to the way that the Centuars tell the future, through watching the stars and the skies, and perhaps when the planets on the watch are in certain positions, or do certain things, is when Dumbledore has to act...
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Yah see that is what I thought was interesting was the planets part of it ...
We know that the students have to do astronomy - we know that the centaurs use the stars and planets ... we know that time and space matter in magic ... so there has to be some links to this watch of Dumbledore's ..
As much as I dont like the prospects of a device that can see into th future just based on my own thoughts ... I think this would have to be a candidate for it ...
 

Weasleyfanforever

Time Turners
OK, the way I see this is that it's not really a thing that can see the future because of itself. I am not sure how good Dumbledore is at mechanics, but I think it could be some kind of schedule... This watch has been mentioned at important times in the books: When Harry was being left at the Dursleys, and when he (Dumbledore) was going to tel Harry the prophecy. I wonder if Dumbledore didn't make the watch himself as a schedule of events to go, but that could seem inconspicuous as just one of Dumbledore's odd trinkets. I think that if Dumbledore were from the future, and had gone back in time to change things, this would be a good way to have his itinerary around at all times, as a reminder kind of....
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Yep - that would run consitant right ...
I think it needs to be a little more profound - it has to have some kind of measurement ...
Most devices serve a purpose and while it may record the events - I think it has to do a bit more ...
Dumbledore could write down the event and just refer back - but he studies this device - like something is changing or has changed ...
I dont dispute that it might be the key events - but I think he looks at it to see any changes based on the actions he performs at the time ... I suppose to see if things are still on course - like a standard event line ... making sure things follow it - or even deviate ...
 

Tonks

Unspeakable
I could probably find another thread to add this on to, but I didn't exactly do the best job looking - so if anyone finds one feel free to merge this one with it :) Thanky.

-----

Fortescue recently posted something in the Transport/Travel in Harry Potter thread that hit something in my brain..

Fortescue said:
Though it's not been mentioned often in the books, just twice in my memory:

The first time in SS/PS when Dumbledore pulled out his watch with twelve hands and no numbers, and little planets that move around the edge.

The second time in the Department of Mysteries he pulled out his watch again when talking to Fudge. It has been suggested that Dumbledore's watch might be his own personal time-turner.

Two times we have seen this, and JKR has gone to the trouble of putting the watch on her website --- I'm thinking it might come into play in HBP.

Indeed, it does seem that it might also tell time, since Dumbledore used it to inform Professor McGonagall that Hagrid was late, but due to the presence of the planets and the lack of numbers - could it also be used as his own personal time turner?

If so, I wonder why Dumbledore would have had it on him that night. Could he have used the time turner the night the Potters died? If so, what for? Could Dumbledore himself have traveled back in time to witness Voldemort's downfall, and that is how he knows so much about what happened there?
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Oooo, very good Tonky :D

Firstly, I'd imagine since he uses as a watch that he'd have it on him at all times, but if in fact it is in some way his own personal time-turner or other type of tranport device it would explain a lot about what he might have been the day after the Potter's death, and the time leading up to when Hagrid delivered him to the Dursley's.

Maybe he can go back in time and see things that happened in the past, and maybe he can do something to influence how things have turned out - to actually help them turn out differently in the same way Harry and Hermione did in PoA.
 

Tonks

Unspeakable
;)

If Dumbledore did go back in time and watch the Potter's death, he probably would not have done anything to change it because the main rule of time travel is you can't interfere (or something along those lines I think), so he couldn't have gotten rid of Voldemort or saved Lily and James but he could have watched everything that happened.

If so, this would definitely explain how Dumbledore knows exactly why Lily died for Harry, how he knows that Voldemort was still out there, but powerless and unable to carry on..

It would also explain why the house was destroyed when Hagrid got there, because I think someone else had to be there to destroy the house. However, that's being discussed elsewhere, I believe..
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Interesting Tonky - but why would he destroy the house ... :evil1:

You know it would account for Dumbledore's vast knowledge in everything - just think about it - he can turn the time back a day - a week - month - years even and go witness first hand what was going on ...
But you are right - rules of time travel - you cant make any significant changes to time - otherwise you have what it termed the 'butterfly effect' ...
If Dumbledore was to stop the Potters dying - given all that passed since - the significance would be too big and likely cause a paradox - and destroy the whole universe ... *bit dramatic right* ...
Still - given Snapes 'Time and space matter in magic Potter' ... and Dumbledore's watch having planets and many hands ... you have to wonder and look a lot harder right ...
I think that Dumbledore is so versed in what is going on because he is utilising this device to the Maximum - and I wonder if we will finally see this when Harry spots two Dumbledore's at one point ... ;)
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
You were right, Tonky - there was another one out there. I just merged them, so people can feel free to peruse what other people said before and add their own new thoughts.

I definitely think there is something special about the watch. I think it might also have something to do with divination - the way the centaurs read the stars and planets . . . could be a possible connection.

I love the idea that it is his personal timeturner, though, that's just a really neat idea. And would definitely make sense how he knows everything about everyone around him.
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
I read a few of the posts from the other thread and see the idea that Dumbledore could be from a different time, but JKR has squashed that idea, so Dumbledore is just the present Dumbledore.

Nice point about the centaurs though. They mentioned their own sort of prophecy told in the stars and planets - as they mentioned the planet Mars and an impending war in Harry's first year when in the forest looking for the injured unicorn.

It could be that Dumbledore sees possible future events through the planets on his watch in the same way the centaurs know what's going to happen. The only problem with the centaurs is that they have to start looking up to ten years before the thing happens, so that doesn't seem to be too reliable. Maybe Dumbledore's watch tells him what's going to happen within the year - twelve hands - twelve months?

The time thing would be handy for Dumbledore as even though the rule is not to meddle with time, if he went into the future to see what might happen to Harry after the war, I'm sure that changing something in the present - just tweaking to the slightest degree would change future events, but wouldn't really be considered "meddling". Dumbledore gave Harry the speech at the end of PoA about the consequences of actions are so complicated and diverse, therefore, I think a little tweak to adjust things a bit doesn't seem like breaking the law of time travel. We know that, when necessary, Dumbledore is as big a rule-breaker as Harry is.

Another thing I think about the watch - a possible connection - twelve hands but no numbers - twelve months in a year - twelve uses for dragons blood - maybe a connection there as well??? :D
 
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