Harry is a Horcrux!

Mollywobbles

Time Turners
Hi All. I'm new here, but I'm just going to jump into this discussion. My apologies if this has already been discussed.

Ok... let's say that Voldemort did indeed make Harry a horcrux ( I sincerely hope he didn't) and didn't know it. All through OoTP, he (Harry) has these "insights" into Voldemorts mind and each time this happens, Harry's scar bursts with pain. When is the last time that Harry feels his scar burn? As far as I can remember, it was when Voldemort possess him in the MoM. So, I have a theory and want to see what you all might think about this...

Let's say that it is indeed true that Voldemort cannot feel when one of his pieces of soul and its horcrux is destroyed. IF Harry was given a piece of Voldemort's soul, do you think it possible that when Voldemort possessed Harry, that he felt a part of his soul there and took it back? I mean, since he would be "inside" the horcurx, so to speak, do you think he could feel it there? This would certainly explain why he's not having those adventures in his sleep anymore and why his scar hasn't hurt recently. Granted, I can see the argument for Occlumency/Legilimency.

Just throwing my thoughts out there. Sorry if they are way out there.
 

toolateagain

Time Turners
Hey, I'm new too! :p

Uum. Harry still has the horcrux because I think Occlumency/Leglimency can't get anything else other than information. If Voldemort wants it back, I guess he needs to rip it off directly from Harry's body.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
First off hello to you both :D

Mollywobbles - the reason Voldemort couldnt stick around in Harry was because he suddenly started to think of Sirius and once Harry started to feel love - something Voldemort has never known - he couldnt understand the sensation or feeling and had to get out.
He was doing fine there inside Harry until Harry unleashed a whole can of love on his sorry ... butt ... and then at that point he had to check out!
Interesting premise all the same - I wonder if Voldemort suddenly did feel something wasnt right in there - and even before the thoughts of Sirius etc - I mean while he was mentally inside Harry's brain and if there is a little piece of him inside there - you have to fancy the chances that he felt it or something!
 

cagedcactus

Sherbet Lemon
Ok I am going to put my side of story here.
In Chamber of secrets in second year, Voldemort tried to comeback with the help of that Diary. Harry put a stop to it when he stabbed that diary and destroyed the piece of soul in it.
My understanding here is in order to come back, Voldemort must use one of his horcruxes.
Which he probably did in GOF in fourth year, when he used Harry to finish the process in which Father's bone and Harry's blood was required. Which means if Harry was a horcrux, well, he is not one now. The soul fragment he probably carried, is used up when Voldemort returned.
Now you may ask, why not use other Horcruxes and just Harry? It would have been easy to get one of those out of hiding, than Harry, who is alive and is an enemy to dark lord.
I think the answer to that is after making his comeback, killing Harry right there in that graveyard would be icing on the cake for dark lord. And that way he would not have to reveal the information on horcruxes to his followers either. He failed in killing Harry, but he did come back and not one of his followers know of horcruxes at present. Of course if you dont count Snape who was a spy(and still is I believe), and R.A.B(who is dead now).
One more pointer: Wormtail asks in the begining of GOF, that if they were to do the process without the boy. Voldemort screams out mentioning that "No, the boy must be there. he is everything."
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Ahh my friend - welcome to my confusion!!
Look for a thread called 'used versus exist' to see what I mean - I was sure after my initial reading of HBP that horcruxes were used - but then seems like 90% of the forum thought otherwise - and not without good reason - it seems that in order for Voldemort to re-birth - he needs to have at least one horcrux that is safe and earthbound - he doesn't use them - they just need to exist ...
Now I am still sitting in the middle with that one - but there is a great deal to support exist versus used ...
Ergo - if exist is the medium - HiaH is still all good!
 

halliemei

Time Turners
What's more . . . even if it is "used," no one has said that he didn't use it to become "babymort." After all, even my 6 year old child has asked how he turned into a baby (to which I replied "I don't know -- magic, I guess"). But, it would seem that if the "used" theory was in place, it would require that to start the process not finish it. Since we have no idea from the books how this happened (only that Wormtail started the process somehow - and that Quirrel didn't in Yr 1), we can assume that he could have used one of the unknown ones. Of course, that gets into an entirely new discussion that hurts my head. :p :D :(

So, I'm still firmly in the HiaH camp and will remain there until JKR gives me reason to change my mind through her own words (or proven wrong in bk 7, whichever comes first).
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I'm sure Voldemort took a stab at explaining how he was able to fashion his baby form in GoF - it was to do with some magic and Wormtail - but I would like to submit the idea in favour of used versus exist - because I am still of the thinking that the masses could be lead blindly into the dark - if more than just one person see's used versus exist - it would tend to suggest their is a reason for the ambiguity - either that or they need to re-read the book - still while the evidence is stronger to exist - I just wonder if that is another sting in the tale ...

JKR is starting to do some theory killing again (Dumbledore dead) so I wonder if she will eventually kill this off or perhaps she has more fun leaving us all arguing over the point!
 

Meagan091484

Time Turners
I don't want anyone taking this wrong, because I am a HUGE Potter fan.
Try this one on for size.

Maybe the reason that Harry was not hurt while destroying the diary in CoS was because JKR had not fully explored the signifigance of it. She says herself that she had not even named these objects until book 6, so four books before she may not have come up with the idea of a Horcrux yet.

Another reason I think he was unharmed, and it may have already been mentioned, was that there is a part of Voldy imprinted in Harry. NOT a piece of him, just a residue of his magic. Almost like a double exposed picture, the main pic is there but with ghost images from the secondary pic.

Just a theory, but I still don't think Harry is a Horcrux.
 

Seeker615

Ghosthunter
The thing is I don't think Voldemort knows that Harry is a horcrux.

What most of us HIAH believers think is that the night Voldemort tried to kill baby Harry he inadvertantly made Harry a horcrux and wiped himself out in the process. His soul was split from Killing Lilly and James, he probably already had the object for the horcrux nearby so after he killed Harry he could make his horcrux. But what happened was that he did the killing curse, it back-fired and vaporized him and a piece of his split soul went into Harry. It seems probable. (Of course only until the final book comes out will we know the truth)
 

Hoggy Warty Hogwarts

Outside Playing Quidditch
The thing is I don't think Voldemort knows that Harry is a horcrux.

What most of us HIAH believers think is that the night Voldemort tried to kill baby Harry he inadvertantly made Harry a horcrux and wiped himself out in the process. His soul was split from Killing Lilly and James, he probably already had the object for the horcrux nearby so after he killed Harry he could make his horcrux. But what happened was that he did the killing curse, it back-fired and vaporized him and a piece of his split soul went into Harry. It seems probable. (Of course only until the final book comes out will we know the truth)



Do you think it possible that maybe if Voldemort made Harry as a horcrux accidently or not he might have felt it, as his soul ripped from his body that night a GH? and thus he would know or even assume harry is a horcrux and therefore not want to kill Harry? but has tried to ever since as we know :confused: but then again maybe not just a thought... what do you think?
 

Padma Patil

Dumbledore's Girl
Well, the question you also have to look at is, did he know that Harry could speak parsletounge (sp?) because of the transfer of power?

In my view however, I'm thinking that if Voldemort intended on turning Harry into a horcrux, then he would have had the object ready and all that so that he could do it as soon as he killed Harry. But since he got zapped in the process, he never got to complete the final horcrux. Hence why Dumbledore believed that Nagini is a horcrux.
 

Hoggy Warty Hogwarts

Outside Playing Quidditch
I know its kind of off topic here but i was wondering if a horcrux can be changed at any point in time no matter how long its been there for ? Incase the location of it or the object itself had been compromised at some point would you be able to change the object or once it has been made a horcrux does it stay that way until its been destroyed or used or whatever it is exactly that can be done with one ? I hope that makes sense :eek:
 

Padma Patil

Dumbledore's Girl
It makes sence to me, but I don't think it can be done. If you want another horcrux, you have to make it. Of course JKR only can answer this question, but thats just my guess.
 

Hoggy Warty Hogwarts

Outside Playing Quidditch
Yeah your probably right but what if you dont want another one and all you want to do is change the object ? but it is just a guess as we dont have the answer so your right about J.K.R being the only one to tell us i just thought i'd see what other people thought... but it would be even harder a task for Harry if that was the case.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Do you think it possible that maybe if Voldemort made Harry as a horcrux accidently or not he might have felt it, as his soul ripped from his body that night a GH? and thus he would know or even assume harry is a horcrux and therefore not want to kill Harry? but has tried to ever since as we know :confused: but then again maybe not just a thought... what do you think?

When Voldemort splits his soul - he looses contact with the soul fragment ...
Given the events exploding on the fateful night and the fact Voldemort was ripped from his body - I dont think he had a clue what really happened and when he addressed the DE's in GOF about the special magic - I think it was him trying to save face and make it look like he knew what happened ...
I dont believe for a second that Voldemort would have had a clue if he made a horcrux or not - and he wasnt about to talk about it if he did ...
Why kill Harry if he is a horcrux - isnt loosing a 7th of your soul worth it when it means you can destroy the one who is destine to kill you?
 

peanutgal1

Time Turners
I won't go too far here because I'm sure that Alz will explain my confusion in two lines. If Harry really has a piece of Voldemort inside him, why does Crookshanks, a kneazle like Harry? Kneazles are able to detect suspicious people, like Wormtail, the rat. However, Crookshanks likes Harry.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
That is a good point actually! :D

See the link/possible Horcrux in Harry isnt obvious - that much can be gained from reading this marathon thread ... as such would a kneazle be able to get in that far?

Then - of course we have the fact Harry isnt acting suspicious and neither is the speculated Horcrux piece inside him - so one again what is there to detect?

That would be my best argument on that one - still it is a great question! :D
 

nymphadora

Time Turners
Well, the question you also have to look at is, did he know that Harry could speak parsletounge (sp?) because of the transfer of power?

In my view however, I'm thinking that if Voldemort intended on turning Harry into a horcrux, then he would have had the object ready and all that so that he could do it as soon as he killed Harry. But since he got zapped in the process, he never got to complete the final horcrux. Hence why Dumbledore believed that Nagini is a horcrux.

When Voldemort splits his soul - he looses contact with the soul fragment ...
Given the events exploding on the fateful night and the fact Voldemort was ripped from his body - I dont think he had a clue what really happened and when he addressed the DE's in GOF about the special magic - I think it was him trying to save face and make it look like he knew what happened ...
I dont believe for a second that Voldemort would have had a clue if he made a horcrux or not - and he wasnt about to talk about it if he did ...
Why kill Harry if he is a horcrux - isnt loosing a 7th of your soul worth it when it means you can destroy the one who is destine to kill you?

Exactly! If Voldemort did turn Harry into a horcrux, why try to kill him?? And why would he want to turn Harry into a horcrux when Voldemort "knew" that Harry was destined to kill him in the end? Or Padma do you mean that Harry's dead body would be a horcrux? Because I don't think anyone would want to use a dead body as a horcrux... it would just rot away!
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
Thanks nymphadora!

That has long been one of my arguments on here, but I have long since given up arguing this point. I'll just wait and let book 7 bring me my glory! I can see from a "speculation" sense that there is an outside possibility, and perhaps put there on purpose by JKR to keep people like us arguing the point over and over, but I just don't see a twist like that being brought about in this last book with so many things already waiting to be resolved in the first place. I have stated before, I don't believe that a living thing can be a horcrux. Dumbledore only "believed" that Nagini "Might" be a horcrux, but offered no other reason, and even then said that it would be unwise to make a horcrux from a living thing.
 

jsez4444

Time Turners
I am new to this site but interested in a lot of its theories. I have read a lot of the post on this thread but not all so forgive me if I repeat any arguments that have already been made.
Personally I don't think that Harry is a Horcrux, it doesn't make enough sense. First thing that pops into my mind for one thing is that Voldemort knew the prophecy before going to kill Harry so if he thought that Harry was supposed to kill him why would he have wanted to make him into a horcrux. I guess I just don't understand what Voldemort would have thought he was going to gain by doing this.
Also Harry being a Horcrux contradicts the prophecy, or at least makes it so the only way the prophecy can be true is if Harry loses. "And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives." So if Harry has to destroy all of the Horcruxes before he can kill Voldemort and he is one of the Horcruxes, it may make it difficult for him to defeat Voldemort.

unless...

I just came up with a theory that may have already been thought up but it just now occured to me and I havent seen it discussed anywhere. The question I have is, do the Horcruxes need to be destroyed in any certain order? Voldemort's original body was already destroyed once and the only reason he was able to be brought back was because of his Horcruxes. So what if (for suspense purposes) Harry destroys all but the final horcrux when he ends up meeting Voldemort in the 7th book. They are in a confrontation and Voldemort somehow reveals to Harry (in a Darth Vader esque fashion) that Harry is a horcrux, or maybe with other clues he recieves he comes to the conclusion on his own whether Voldemort knows or not. He will probably be stumped for a while as to what to do but he will finally realize, as so many heros do, that he will have to sacrafice himself to save the world (like Neo in the Matrix.) Then he has to somehow destroy Voldemort's body and then he will be the final horcrux and he will have to sacrafice himself somehow.

I'm not sure if I just convinced myself or if that is just one of the many situations that could happen so I am going to go think about this more and get back to this thread later when I hear other peoples thoughts.
 
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