How did Bella apparate with Narcissa in HBP?

cagedcactus

Sherbet Lemon
While we are so eagerly waiting for HP OotP to come out in cinemas, and DH to come out as the last book a little debate here....

So far from reading the 6 books and watching movies, I have concluded that if a wizard or witch apparates away from you, you have no way to follow them. You cant chase them. Only way to go along with them is if you apparate side by side with intention to reach on same spot together.

Then how did Bella followed Narcissa in begining of HBP? It is clear from their conversation that Narcissa doesnt want bella with her. So it wasnt a side by side case. Bella, upon arriving shows confusion. Then says "he lives here? in muggle dunghill?"

How did Bella apparate there then? How can you apparate to a place, which you dont have any knowledge of?
 

Sir Cadogan

Noble Heart, Steely Sinew
How can you apparate to a place, which you dont have any knowledge of?

Maybe via GWPS? Global Wizard Positioning System ;-)

No, seriously - maybe apparating works similarly to the floo system where you just call out the name of your destination without knowing what it looks like there (cf. the Weasley's arrival in the Dursley's closed down chimney). So Bellatrix might have known Snape's address without having been there before, and she concentrated hard (non-verbally) on his postal code when dis-/apparating ...

I know this doesn't explain why she landed only a couple of feet from where her sister arrived, and I'm not entirely serious about it either. ;)
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
my guess is that Bellatrix used Legilimency. We know that Draco was taught occlumency by her, and to teach occlumency you would have to at least be fairly well versed in legilimency. As we saw in HBP also, when the kids were being taught to aparate, one of the key ellements is to put all your concentration into picturing where you want to go. So . . . I would assume that a wizard that is skilled in Legilimency would be able to see the location someone is picturing and therby follow them to the exact spot (of course, waiting a moment as Bellatrix did so as not to aparate right on top of (or inside of) them)
 

kashlie

afraid of my own shadow
she could have focused on apparating to her sister, not a place ;)

oh and that occlumency stuff...Malfoy could learn it and not be broken by Snape, who is most accomplished?
 

cagedcactus

Sherbet Lemon
Well, I think SPF's theory comes close. Bella had to know somehow where she was to apparate. I still think that it would have been a very detailed thought process to find out where her sister was to apparate.

Logic says, concentrating on a person would not work. Because if that was possible, no one can escape.

I also thought that Draco denying Snape in HBP was surprising. Did he really learn that art that good? Snape is one of the good ones, and even he couldnt break into Draco's mind.
 

Hoggy Warty Hogwarts

Outside Playing Quidditch
I also thought that Draco denying Snape in HBP was surprising. Did he really learn that art that good? Snape is one of the good ones, and even he couldnt break into Draco's mind.



Well maybe he did, coz there was a pause and then Snape said: Ah Aunt Bellatrix has been teaching you Occlumency, I see...

Well he might know that she knows how to do it but then again how do we really know he didnt get that from Draco's mind...:D
 

cagedcactus

Sherbet Lemon
HWH, I am sure we will know more about that in DH.
I just cant get my mind off that apparation issue. I dont want to be a picky guy, but it was just obvious. Even the shock on Bella's face after apparating was a good reason for that question.
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
another possibility, In Anne McCaffrey's Dragon Riders of Pern Series, The dragons can teleport (through space as well as time) the instructions they use to do so, are strikingly similar to the way aparation is taught. I've gone over most of this in another thread on time travel, but . . . Dragons and "Fire Lizards" (smaller forms of the Dragons) are able to follow another through a teleportation without knowing where they are going. How they do it is never explained, but if that is where Rowling has learned her theories on aparation (and I am fairly well convinced she has) we may never be given a precise explanation.

An uneducated guess (like anyone is truly educated in teleportation) is that the transference from one place to another leaves an energy "wake" behind that can be followed by a skilled user if done imediately, without prior knowledge of the destination.

One last theory. Perhaps Bella could aparate focusing on Narcissa's face or form, thereby aparating directly to her wherever she went. I think this most likely as the DE's in GoF could aparate to wherever Voldemort was when he activated the dark marks on their arms. The were given no directions to the grave yard, and to the best of our knowledge had never been there before to be able to picture it in their minds. They must be able to aparate to a person, as well as to a place.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Well this is a poor stab at an answer but here goes ... we saw in OoTP film Fred & George apparate together - now I agree, this isn't the best factual proof of anything but all the same ... looks like it could be possible!
I think it is a continuity error - Bella apparated after Narcissa, ergo - she shouldn't have know where Narcissa went!
 

Piper

Time Turners
It has always been my assumption that you could not apparate to get away, which was why Lily didn't just grab Harry up and apparate. That Voldemort would have just followed her wherever she went.
 
Well this is a poor stab at an answer but here goes ... we saw in OoTP film Fred & George apparate together - now I agree, this isn't the best factual proof of anything but all the same ... looks like it could be possible!
I think it is a continuity error - Bella apparated after Narcissa, ergo - she shouldn't have know where Narcissa went!
She didn't know where she was going? Despite the fact that she was trying to stop her from going there? No, I think she DID know where she was going, and why, otherwise she wouldn't have been trying to stop her. There was no mention of "shock" on her face in the book. The first thing she did when she got there is to yell "Wait!", so obviously she knew Narcissa's plan..

As for how she got there, it stands to reason that other DE's had been to Snape's house before. He wasn't ALWAYS mistrusted by them.
 

cagedcactus

Sherbet Lemon
She didn't know where she was going? Despite the fact that she was trying to stop her from going there? No, I think she DID know where she was going, and why, otherwise she wouldn't have been trying to stop her. There was no mention of "shock" on her face in the book. The first thing she did when she got there is to yell "Wait!", so obviously she knew Narcissa's plan..

As for how she got there, it stands to reason that other DE's had been to Snape's house before. He wasn't ALWAYS mistrusted by them.

I would like to respectfully disagree.
Did Bella know where Narcissa was going? absolutely.... she knew that Narcissa wanted to go to Snape.
But did Bella know where Snape lived? No. see the cut out from HBP ....

"He lives here?" asked Bella in a voice of contemp. "Here? In this Muggle dunghill? We must be the first of our kind ever to set foot--"

I have stated in my earlier post, that following a person is possible only if both or all of the people know final destination, and can picture themselves being there.
You can not chase someone, or else Aurors and DD could have chased Voldemort after he apparated away from MoM.

Lily couldnt apparate away with Harry. True. But we all know that Godric's Hollow had anti apparition charms on it. Therefore she couldnt do it, even if she wanted to. I remember JKR confirming this in one of her interviews too....

Fred and George apparate together everywhere, because that is the case of side along apparition. they both know where exactly they are going, and when they are going. DD does it with Harry on multiple cases in HBP.
 
Good point on her not knowing where he lived.. In that case, I say JKR flubbed it, unless she's got an explanation for it. I don't..

As for side along, I disagree on Fred and George. That's not side along, that's just both people knowing where they're going and going at the same time. Side along involves holding the other person and "carrying" them with you.
 

cagedcactus

Sherbet Lemon
As for side along, I disagree on Fred and George. That's not side along, that's just both people knowing where they're going and going at the same time. Side along involves holding the other person and "carrying" them with you.


Yes, you are right. My mistake. Side along would be more like guiding the other.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
She didn't know where she was going? Despite the fact that she was trying to stop her from going there? No, I think she DID know where she was going, and why, otherwise she wouldn't have been trying to stop her. There was no mention of "shock" on her face in the book. The first thing she did when she got there is to yell "Wait!", so obviously she knew Narcissa's plan..

As for how she got there, it stands to reason that other DE's had been to Snape's house before. He wasn't ALWAYS mistrusted by them.
As pointed out before, you need to follow the three D's - and Bella had no idea about destination because her dialog about where Snape lived was one of disbelief, this would suggest she had no idea where Snape lived and thus - even if Narcissa said she was going to see Snape - Bella wouldn't know where to fix her mind on destination!
 
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