How does Dumbledore know?

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Boing said:
As for the CoS letter Harry gets in the Burrow, I think that Dumbledore might have heard from Mrs. Figg that Harry left. She might have been awake or woke up because of the car flying through the air and let him know. Just an idea.

That's a possibility. It could be too that Dumbledore went to check on Harry, as I believe that he did many times over the years while Harry was at the Dursley's. Harry was locked in his room after the pudding incident for three days - he was at the Burrow for a week when the Hogwarts letters came. It could be during those 10 or so days that Dumbledore chose to check up on Harry, invisibly of course, and found him gone. (This is just my idea -- I'd like to think that Dumbledore cares enough for Harry to pop into the Dursley's from time to time just to see how he's getting along. ) :D

I wonder if that scene doesn't go back to how the owls know where people are even if they leave one place and go to another. In the movie it was shown that Harry's letter came in the envelope with all the Weasley childrens, but in the book he got his own envelope. In the book Mr. Weasley mentioned that Dumbledore already knew that Harry was in the Burrow, but wouldn't the owl deliver his letter wherever Harry was at the time?
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Am I the only one that seems concerned that Dumbledore could be invisible and sneaking around everyone for such a long time?
Indeed - isnt it just plain creepy that we never had it come out and be said that Dumbledore is practicing this?
I would even go to say it is so clandestine to have a skill where you could be invisible and just wonder around places with no-one seeing you ...
It just doesnt seem right - and I would want to make sure the person that had that skill was honest and upfront in the use of it ... ;)
There is a reason Dumbledore can track everyone - just have to ask yourself the motivations ;)
 

Kingsley

Time Turners
It is all perspective--to some DD seems liek a great protector with that skill--to me it just seems like Big Brother is watching--or super old wizard stalker at Hogwarts

I can think of plenty of things that I would do if I were invisible and few of them seem noble
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Dumbledore has a huge responsibility, not only to watch out over Harry, but to keep track of others and their actions and to know what's going on around him and Hogwarts. I can only assume that the fact he can be invisible would be a great benefit to gaining information when needed. It does seem odd though, if he can be invisible, why would he need Snape to spy on Voldemort's operation when Dumbledore could easily do it himself?

I don't think I'd call it creepy. I imagine it would be something you'd get used to, just like Harry has gotten used to the knowledge that there are at least two people at Hogwarts who can read his every thought. That would give me the creeps more than knowing a sweetheart like Dumbledore was maintaining his awareness of things.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
If he was stealth and shared his experiences openly - I would see your arguement ...
But, and as the book seems to show at the moment, that he does it with no communication - that would seem subversive and some might say he was taking away their human right to privacy etc ...
The skill of being invisble would be clandestine and subversive if a person never fessed up to owning it or even telling people ... because it can be used for means that arent always honerable ...

This isnt another perpetuation of DiE - it is just simplistic - when someone possesses a skill such as this and never declares he has it - it is going to make people feel very uncomfortable as to how the person is using this ...
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Blaise said:
If he was stealth and shared his experiences openly - I would see your arguement ...

But if he went around telling everyone he could become invisible and let them know every time he spotted them doing something while invisible, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of being able to be invisible? He told Harry he could do it in PS/SS, so it's not like he's been hiding the fact he can become invisible without a cloak. I just don't think it would be a very effective tool if everyone knew you could do it. I'm sure the other teachers know since Dumbledore was the Transfiguration teacher and as with McGonagall, he probably showed his talent to his students.

Blaise said:
But, and as the book seems to show at the moment, that he does it with no communication - that would seem subversive and some might say he was taking away their human right to privacy etc ...
The skill of being invisble would be clandestine and subversive if a person never fessed up to owning it or even telling people ... because it can be used for means that arent always honerable ...

I think it was Patton that said, "war is hell." I'm sure the ability to become invisible would be an excellent weapon in a war. Subversive? Not if it's used for the right purpose, which we know Dumbledore is on the side of good and not evil, so I have no problem with his judgment regarding when he would use that talent. As I said before, he told Harry in Harry's first year he could become invisible without a cloak, so it seems it's not a top secret thing that he's trying to hide from everyone - he just doesn't announce it to the entire school.

Blaise said:
This isnt another perpetuation of DiE - it is just simplistic - when someone possesses a skill such as this and never declares he has it - it is going to make people feel very uncomfortable as to how the person is using this ...

I don't think Dumbledore would use his talent for invisiblity to sneak into the girls shower room or anything - I'd expect that would be something more that Harry or Ron would do while going through their teenage hormone things ;) Toss on the invisibility cloak and take a stroll through the girls showers - sounds more like something Fred and George might do, but not Dumbledore :rolleyes:

(I would really like to do the DiE thing with you Blaise - it would probably be quite fun :p I just don't see him as subversive or evil - he is one of my favorites - I could do the DiE thing about Snape, but then it would be the SiE :D )
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
If you see it or not - there is an interpretation of his actions and words that could be seen in both lights ...
As I said I didn't offer this as DiE material - just simply that the skill he has would be better served spying on Voldemort and DE's - but yet he sends Snape to do it ...
I think there is a contradiction between intent and action - and the practical uses of this skill don't seem to being applied by Dumbledore ...
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Blaise said:
If you see it or not - there is an interpretation of his actions and words that could be seen in both lights ...
As I said I didn't offer this as DiE material - just simply that the skill he has would be better served spying on Voldemort and DE's - but yet he sends Snape to do it ...
I think there is a contradiction between intent and action - and the practical uses of this skill don't seem to being applied by Dumbledore ...

While reading PoA again I came across something that made me possibly bend a bit towards your train of thought - but it could also be a simple explanation as to why Dumbledore doesn't use his invisibility to spy on Voldemort.

At the beginning of the book, when all the students are in the great hall for the feast, Dumbledore tells the students about the dementors guarding the entrances to the castle and the fact that they can see through Invisibility Cloaks - a remark that was obviously directed at Harry. Later, Ron suggests the use of the cloak so Harry can go to Hogsmeade and Hermione reminds them of what Dumbledore said - that dementors can see through Invisibility Cloaks. Now, how would Dumbledore know that if he hadn't had experience with a similar situation with dementors?

It's possible that Dumbledore had tried to spy on Voldemort and was spotted by the dementors in his invisible form. I think back to the Dumbledore's Animagus thread where Gini's suggested that Dumbledore could be a Demiguise. It would surely explain how Dumbledore would know that dementors could see through Invisibility Cloaks as they are made out of the hair from a Demiguise. Dumbledore would not be able to spy on Voldemort under those circumstances, and it would also account for Dumbledore's negative feelings about dementors and his refusal to allow them inside the castle.

It would help if we had any clues as to what Snape might turn into and how he does his spying. Possibly, whatever way he spies or whatever form he takes is beneficial under the circumstances.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Interesting observation there ...
I know the Dementors arent exactly the most friendly things in the world - but Dumbledore does seem to loath them a great deal.
So going along with the point you made from Gini and your thoughts - yeah I can see it.
I suppose that Voldemort doesnt know this - otherwise he would have a Dementor with him at all times to ensure that Dumbledore wasnt just lurking in the shadows.
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
I guess my thought is that Voldemort is one of those people that Dumbledore doesn't want to know of his talent. Maybe that's why he only tells those closest to him - those he can trust. But then, since Dumbledore had said he was Tom Riddle's Transfiguration teacher fifty years ealier, if Dumbledore did display his transfiguration talents to the class, then Voldemort would already know and the weapon of invisibility would become useless. Maybe that's one of the reasons Voldemort called the Dementors back to him as soon as he could no longer hide the fact that he was back....to help watch for Dumbledore.
 
H

HarryPotter80000

Guest
MissWhizbee said:
Interesting question...I've been thinking along the same lines since re-reading for the chapter by chapter excercise. Maybe Ms Figg is keeping a close eye on things, or Dumbledore knows an animagus who is small enough to get into the Dursley's house to spy on them for him. Or maybe there is some magic on the letters themselves that Let Dumbledore know whether Harry has been able to read them or not and they have a tracking spell on them so they automatically address themselves to Harry where ever he might be.

just a few speculative thoughts for ya... ;)

yeah i like the idea on Mrs figg tellin DD about what has happened to harry because everytime harry would need her as a babysitter harry aunt and uncle would have to tell her things or somethi like that
 
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