Nonverbal

Morfin Gaunt

dumbledores army
is it not possible to use a spell while under a spell. as iv always wondered why harry when he had been immobilsed by dumbledore did not use levicorpus (scuse spelling havenbt got the book)
he knew he could do it non verbally.
* is the swish/flick of the wand essential ( like we learned with wingardium leviosa)
* was harry not being very bright
* or cant you use a spell while under a spell

What do you think guys
 

cagedcactus

Sherbet Lemon
I am almost sure that you cant use a spell while you are under petrificus spell.
Not only the wand movement is crucial, but your concentration on that spell should also play major roll.
I dont think one can be so fortunate to let a spell out, while laying frozen, unable to move even an inch.....
 

tobias

Time Turners
I always assumed that the strength of the spell depended on the strength of the one who cast it. So if the spell on you was done badly or weakly you might, with enough force, break it. But if DD wants you frozen and he concentrated on it, I think you are stuck.
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
You can definitely do spells nonverbally without the swish - Dumbledore does this all the time - just pointing at things and making them happen (like candles lighting up and such).

However, I think that if you are under an immobilizing spell, that would make you fairly, um, immobilized ;)

Also, Harry had other things on his mind at the time and might not have been able to think of all the things we could sitting on our couches at home. Not sure about being able to cast spells while under all sorts of other spells, though. Seems as though strength and type of spell would matter a lot in determining that.
 

jimbo716

Time Turners
How many wizzards stayed out of prison because they claimed to be under a spell or curse? These people all still had their full power. Didn't they?
 

frodobaggins

Time Turners
did harry even have his wand in his hand??
because if he couldnt move at all how could he have got it?
also even if he had had his wand in his hand you still have to be able to point it, and its very doubtful he had it pointed at the spot were malfoy was gonna be.
 

Lovegood54

Luna's Biggest Fan!
i checked last night (for another thread i was responding too) and it seems liek he did have his wand in his hand. and as far as not neeeding to move your wand to do nonverbal spells: ARE YOU KIDDING ME? you have to be! yes, you need to move your wand to do at least SOME nonverbal spells:rolleyes: . afterall, when harry learns to do Levicorpus he has to think it AND flick his wand! it is in the spell recipe! Motion + Levicorpus (nonvbl) = Bam! Ron strung up in the air by his ankle. as far as the nonverbal spells we have seen cast by Dumbledore, i dont think all nonverbal spells need a motion, but there mayeb motions that are just not described because they are simple flicks you might not notice (like a slight twitch, or a motion that seems like ordinary movement like pointing) and not to mention not all dumbledore's nonverbal spells lack a motion: Big example: the spell that hit Voldy's shield so hard it resonded like a gong (despite the obvious dampening of sound that would come from it being attached to his arm)!!!!! the motion of the wand depends on the spell being cast. like, to levitate an object nonverbally, the swish and flick motion is most likely needed.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Not sure I fully agree L54 - Dumbledore and Voldemort can perform spells with no wand movements, I think it is down to the power of the wizard.
I think Harry displays strong magical powers under heavy duress but in the whole he is as Snape says 'mediocre at best' - he requires the high pressure environments to bring out his best.
Could Harry has performed a non-verbal spell - I would assume if he could be would have looked more at disarming Draco, the Death Eaters or Snape versus anything else - I think we have to assume from the scene he was immobilized to the point he didn't even think of it or try it - I think we was genuinely in shock at what was happening!
 

Mr_Bandman

Time Turners
Not sure I fully agree L54 - Dumbledore and Voldemort can perform spells with no wand movements, I think it is down to the power of the wizard.
I think Harry displays strong magical powers under heavy duress but in the whole he is as Snape says 'mediocre at best' - he requires the high pressure environments to bring out his best.

And I'm not sure I fully agree with that. I think a wizard's powers need time to mature, and, as with any other talent, different people mature at different rates. I think Harry is likely a very talented and powerful wizard (hence the Patronus) who needs focus and maturity----perhaps it is the duress that brings it out in him at the moment, but I think that he will learn to harness and focus his abilities and become as strong as any wizard in his generation. Hermione is rarely wrong----JKR speaks through her when she wants to make a point of something---and Hermione says Harry is a great wizard.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I think Harry will develop his skills and refine them with age but right now, he is lazy until such time as he is in a fix - then he pulls on experience and harnesses his full potential.
Snape was right - even if you look at Ron and Harry in classes, they are both average students. Harry even resorts to cheating with the half blood prince spells in order to get an edge, something Hermione was more than aware of.
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
Alz said:
I think Harry will develop his skills and refine them with age but right now, he is lazy until such time as he is in a fix
I agree completely Alz, (I think I posted something very simmilar on another thread last night . . .) I think Harry will get Nonverbals as well as mastering his occlumency. (would think that seeing that Draco could do it would have given him some incentive.) Harry needs motivation to do things, but when he gets it . . . he is exceptional.
 

Seeker615

Ghosthunter
Not to mention he has problems when Snape is around. In OOTP Harry was able to fully concentrate and make an acceptable potion when Snape ignored him.

Harry's biggest problem is calming down and clearing his mind, especially after being harrassed. With the right guidance Harry is more than capable of doing anything he sets his mind to.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Not to mention he has problems when Snape is around. In OOTP Harry was able to fully concentrate and make an acceptable potion when Snape ignored him.

Harry's biggest problem is calming down and clearing his mind, especially after being harrassed. With the right guidance Harry is more than capable of doing anything he sets his mind to.

As we see, Harry's best and worst assets are his emotions - they interfere with performance and enhance performance.

I see you both read OoTP - this is in essence the real life proof of exactly what you are both saying and I guess that is what JKR was trying to show - Harry is an emotional wreck but through it he can muster it into great magic but still, he is a teen and the emotions are running wild!

I guess drifting somewhat back to the topic at hand - indeed, I think Harry could have mustered a non-verbal if he wasn't so gripped by what was happening and then traumatized by the ending - remember JKR made it very clear that the moment Dumbledore took his fall, Harry was free but it was shock that had him frozen still!
 

Hoggy Warty Hogwarts

Outside Playing Quidditch
Well in HBP he does the nonverbal spell when he was under felix so we dont actually know if that was why or if he could do it anyway... i think he has the ability to do it but needs encouragement maybe Dumbledore's death was just what he needed in a sad way to give him what he needs to do what he needs to do like was said b4 Dumbledore's death needed to happen in order for Harry to go on and do what he has to do and i think it was true in more ways then one...
 

Padma Patil

Dumbledore's Girl
i think he has the ability to do it but needs encouragement maybe Dumbledore's death was just what he needed in a sad way to give him what he needs to do what he needs to do like was said b4 Dumbledore's death needed to happen in order for Harry to go on and do what he has to do and i think it was true in more ways then one...

I'd have to agree with that. I think that everybody is sad to see Dumbledore go, but because of his death, Harry will have to move on on his own and will be encouraged to do his best, because now he knows the stakes and what is at risk. Harry can and will be a great wizard, he just needs to get a grip on his emotions which I think will happen in the next book. OotP seems to be the hight of his emotional scale. HBP is when he starts to cool down, example, when he wanted to yell at Dumbledore after he found out about Snape listening to the prophecy but instead reins in his emotions and puts whats more important first.
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
Padma Patil said:
example, when he wanted to yell at Dumbledore after he found out about Snape listening to the prophecy but instead reins in his emotions and puts whats more important first.
Bravo! that is an exelent example of Harry's growing maturity . . . his ability to focus and controll his emotions, not to react emotionaly, but to act out of intent and purpose. I think that Snape will have succeded in his efforts as he left the school grounds.

HBP p 765 said:
"Blocked again and again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!" sneered Snape
Snape has taught harry quite a bit by ridiculing him. Harry wil focus on these now because he has seen the need. Also . . . perhaps it is JKR's way of preventing Harry from murdering Snape at that time. For him not to have the ability to use nonverbals, or occlumency against Snape . . . because he could have, and would have killed him that night had Snape not been able to deflect the spells . . .
 

Dr Winterbourne

Time Turners
Anyone that has been a 'father', or a mentor to Harry has died - James, Sirius, Dumbledore. In the early books, Harry and Ron were best friends, but by book 6, Ron and Hermione seem the core of the group, and Harry is the extra. He did indeed learn to calm himself, and perhaps the reason Dumbledore died was so he could face Voldemort alone; a man now, his own man, standing tall.
 
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