Order Communication

Tonks

Unspeakable
JKR's Updated Website 10/12/04
The Order of the Phoenix communicates using Chocolate Frog Cards

This is such a great idea I was in two minds whether to shoot it down; however, a chocolate frog card, or any other object that would have to be remembered and carried on the person, would always be vulnerable to loss, destruction or trickery. The Order communicates in a way that requires nothing but a wand. You saw the Order's method of communication in use even before you knew about the existence of the Order; it was employed by an Order member.
Ok - a couple of things here...

Where may we have seen this method of communication? And who specifically was it used by? (If it was used by an Order member, this sort of narrows it down, but not that much.)

I'm thinking that such use of this method of communication must have been told to us in books 1-4, because very early on in OotP Harry learns about the Order. I have a feeling we may have seen this in GoF, because at the end of PoA Dumbledore asks Sirius to alert the old crowd, and I just think that the old Order forms of communication may not have been in use before Sirius re-alerted all the 'old crowd'. That's open though obviously.

And also - what type of communication requires only a wand? (And have we seen enough of such to be able to identify/describe it?)

At first I thought they may have communicated through Dumbledore with some use of Fawkes, but then Fawkes would be required too, wouldn't he? ;)
 

Weasleyfanforever

Time Turners
Tonks said:
And also - what type of communication requires only a wand? (And have we seen enough of such to be able to identify/describe it?)

I am wondering if it is not :

GoF said:
"Should I go and get someone?" said Harry. "Madam Pomfrey?"
"No," said Dumbledore swiftly. "Stay here."
He raised his wand into the air and pointed it in the direction of Hagrid's cabin. Harry saw something silvery dart out of it and streak away through the trees like a ghostly bird. Then Dumbledore bent over Krum again, pointed his wand at him, and muttered, "Ennervate."

A few paragraphs later, Hagrid appears.... I think that this could be how they communicate, but am not sure this could send any kind of message, other than a warning, or for help....
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
That's exactly what I was thinking - the silvery thing that went out of Dumbledore's wand. Although that paragraph also seems to indicate that perhaps Hagrid *is* a member of the Order, which has been debated here for awhile.

I believe that JKR also said that the thing that came out of Dumbledore's wand was a Patronus-like creature - not a true Patronus, but that's what Dumbledore's would look like. So, perhaps a Patronus is almost like part of you and can communicate for you. Not just sit there in front of someone, but also relay a message.
 
R

Rooster

Guest
I definately think it has something to do with the silver thing that shot out of his wand. Perhaps it is a message that can only be translated by members of the Order - Like maybe the enchantment knows which wand belongs to a member and only people with those wands can decode it.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I think that is exactly what we saw ...
JKR used her words very well to point to an instance where we saw an order member do something ... and it seems a strong coincidence we see Dumbledore summons someone using something akin to a patronus.
And as pointed out above - it seems to answer the question about if Hagrid was in the order ...

I think is was like a semi patronus - we all know they are created to protect so does seem like it is fulfilling it's duty - because we expect the order to do that right ;)
 

Tinkerbell

Time Turners
I agree that this is the form of communication used, but I also think it is significant that the form that eminates from Dumbledore's wand is that of a bird, and that this is probably a phoenix, and therefore the members of the Order know that this message is from another member of the Order.
 

Nagini

Time Turners
Yes I am going with this silvery image too, I have wondered for some time what its purpose was. So is this like the Dark Mark do you think? All members of the Order are able to summon one?

What is its purpose though? Can it tell the whereabouts of the Order member who summoned it so that the person who receives it knows where to go? Does it speak do you think so that it can relay messages?
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
Tinkerbell said:
I agree that this is the form of communication used, but I also think it is significant that the form that eminates from Dumbledore's wand is that of a bird, and that this is probably a phoenix, and therefore the members of the Order know that this message is from another member of the Order.

So you think that the silvery phoenix in particular is used by all members of the Order? That's a great idea - it makes sense as well, given the name of the Order! There must be some sort of special spell they've made up that allows them to do that . . .

I actually like this theory better than the one that says that different members would conjure up their own semi-patronuses and send them along. Although, with this way, they would probably know right away who sent the message . . .
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
It must be quite an art for all of the member to be able to conjure up the same type of semi paronus ...
Also - not sure who stealth that really is - surely the keen observer would soon realise what these things were and maybe tag or follow them?
I think Boing has a point - I think that each member might have a different one - just on the off chance someone see's a link ...
 

Nagini

Time Turners
I am not sure on that, I like the idea that they all use a phoenix silvery shape mark as its the Order of the Pheonix. All Death Eaters can conjure one mark too and Harry etc had a Galleon for the DA. There will also be a lot of wizards who can do things that most wizards can't or perhaps there is another "mark" they use if your in the Wizengamot and its simply a way to communicate between groups, clubs or committee etc.
 

Weasleyfanforever

Time Turners
Boing said:
I actually like this theory better than the one that says that different members would conjure up their own semi-patronuses and send them along. Although, with this way, they would probably know right away who sent the message . . .

I agree. I think that the only reason that Dumbledore's was a pheonix was because that is what his patronus is. I think it would make sense that each member of the Order had a different one. That would make it instantly clear who needed help if they saw what the animal was, and if each member had a different animal...
 

Tinkerbell

Time Turners
In that case, each member of the Order would have to have memorised what each of the other members' patronuses were, agreed? I can't help but thinking that poor Neville would be extremely confused given his befuddled memory!
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
Tinkerbell said:
In that case, each member of the Order would have to have memorised what each of the other members' patronuses were, agreed? I can't help but thinking that poor Neville would be extremely confused given his befuddled memory!

Well, I guess it's a good thing he's not in the Order! Poor guy! I'd think that the members of the Order (if they needed to memorize the patronuses) would get it after a little bit as they probably send lots of messages back and forth. That will be interesting later on - perhaps we'll get a chance to see Snape sending a message to someone and find out what his patronus is.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Nagini said:
I am not sure on that, I like the idea that they all use a phoenix silvery shape mark as its the Order of the Pheonix. All Death Eaters can conjure one mark too and Harry etc had a Galleon for the DA. There will also be a lot of wizards who can do things that most wizards can't or perhaps there is another "mark" they use if your in the Wizengamot and its simply a way to communicate between groups, clubs or committee etc.
Umm - ok well the DE's mark they were proud of - and mostly seen post an attack right ... well unless they are showing off like in GoF - so no need for secrecy ...

The DA - well they were kids - they like to have secret clubs with handshakes and tokens etc ....

The Order looks like a professional outfit - and as such they will value their secrecy and identities above all else - any mark that links them would be a terrible giveaway to others if ever spotted ... best to have a random sign or token they all know ;)
 

kashlie

afraid of my own shadow
To me, the Order of the Phoenix, means Dumble's order. Obviously they would all be following his orders, right, so if his patronus is that of the Phoenix...then you get Order of the Phoenix.
In a way, I think it is better for the Order to all use the phoenix, because it is a bird, and it would make its mark in the sky. I can't imagine Harry's stag being of much use if it can't be viewed above the trees, for example. I don't think it would matter who sends the signal, all members of the Order would be willing to help each other.

But I also still like the chocolate frog card idea...but only because ' Bill Weasley states that Dumbledore doesn't care what the Ministry do to him as long as they don't take him off the chocolate frog cards' (credit to Goddard, Harry Potter rumours, about.com)
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
I do believe that JKR has shot down the Chocolate Frogs cards idea . . . she says on her website that it is a fantastic idea, but is not how they do it. She says that we saw how they communicated even before we knew there was an Order because one of the members used it - so I take this to mean Dumbledore's use of the "wisp."
 

Norbert

Time Turners
I am in agreement that the use of this 'wisp' by Dumbledore is the most likely version of communication which JKR has mentioned since we have seen it and it requires a wand. We have also witnessed a means of communication which does not require a wand, although it is a means seamingly only available to Dumbledore - or any who can access Dumbledores office... In OOTP Dumbledore uses the portraits in his office to transfer messages and gain information as well.
 

Norbert

Time Turners
Further to the 'wisp' from Dumbledores wand... I have a theory brewing about this portion of the story and it has some interesting coinsedences that may have begun to tip Dumbledore off regarding the fake Moody... Please help me with the details - I can't remember fully, was Snape and/or Moody already present at this time? Did Magonical show up?
 
I am going to suggest that the method of communication is different for each member. This would keep secrecy because each person would have their own method, therefore the DE's would have a tough time figuring out what it is.

Perhaps the clock in the begining of SS was some sort of communication from the Order's headquarters?
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
Norbert said:
Further to the 'wisp' from Dumbledores wand... I have a theory brewing about this portion of the story and it has some interesting coinsedences that may have begun to tip Dumbledore off regarding the fake Moody... Please help me with the details - I can't remember fully, was Snape and/or Moody already present at this time? Did Magonical show up?

Glad to help, Norbert!

In the scene at the woods when they find Crouch, Harry tells Krum to stay with Crouch while he goes to get Dumbledore. Then, on the way, he meets up with Snape who gives him a hard time and delays him. Then, Dumbledore opens the door and heads out with Harry and leaves Snape in the castle.

Harry and Dumbledore find Krum stunned and Dumbledore makes the "wisp." He revives Krum and within seconds Hagrid comes running up. Dumbledore tells Hagrid to tell Karkaroff what happened and then fetch Moody, but Moody has come up to them already.

Hagrid goes and gets Karkaroff who comes over.

McGonagall wasn't there.

When Barty, Jr. is under the influence of the Veritaserum, he says that he looked on the map and saw his dad, went to kill him, but Harry and Krum were there. Harry left, he stunned Krum, killed dad, put him under an invisibility cloak and then watched on the map as Harry, Dumbledore, and Snape were talking, then saw Harry bringing Dumbledore down. He said he doubled back around them and walked up pretending he had met Snape and Snape had told him what was happening.

Hope that helps! :D

In terms of everyone having a different method of communication, I'm not sure that would work very well. I think everyone probably uses some form of the "wispy patronus," which I think will be interesting because I feel we are going to see more of it in the new books and I for one really want to see what everyone's patronus is . . . like Snape and Lupin . . . :D
 
Top