re-reading HBP

happy_hannah

Time Turners
i finished my re-read of HBP the other day so i figured id jot down a few things i noticed. (apart from the two things i have already posted)

1. Harry's potions book, first of all why didnt he suspect voldemort of being the prince, especially after he checked the date of its publication and noticed it was about 50 years ago, which was when riddle's diary was also purchased. but then even more importantly, this means snape's mother was at hogwarts when voldemort was.
2. towards the end harry is reflecting on how annoyed he is that the HBP turned out to be snape and mentions how the HBP had 'helped him' a thought he is disgusted at 'now...' what does that now... mean?
3. the memory of hepzibah smith, is she related to zacharius smith, the one in the slug club? also when she shows riddle the huffelpuff goblet she mentions its supposed to have all sorts of powers, she also says the same of the locket, if so what would these powers be and how would they help harry?


now off on a tangent, i just thought of something, if harry kills voldemort than will this mean the curse on the defence against the dark arts job will be lifted? if it is i hope lupin gets the job, yay!
Also, it has long been my opinion that snape is evil, evil, evil. (until i read that 'helped him...now...' thing which made me think a bit, but even still, evil) anyway i think snape is waiting for harry to defeat voldemort so he can become the new dark lord, and who is to defeat snape?....neville!
 
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Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
Hey WOW! I just finished the other day too! guess we're all getting ready for DH!

OK, #1, that is curious that he never suspected Riddle I would say even more curious that Hermionie didn't think it! . . . my guess is that I think he knew Riddle/Voldemort would never have bragged of being a half blood. Now, Snapes Mother being there with Voldemort, we are starting to collect a small groups of "classmates" for young Riddle. We know Hagrid, McGonagal, Myrtle, Prince, and someone else I can't remember right now who would have been there around the same time. Can't help but wonder how that is going to play out.

#2 I think that he's disgusted "now" because he hates Snape so much, especialy "now" that Harry saw him kill Dumbledore. Who of us wants to think that we have to be thankful to someone we hate? Harry has to thank Snape now because it was the reminder of the beezoar that saved Ron. Harry has to thank Snape now because without that first miraculous potion he made with the HBP's help the first day with Slughorn, he wouldn't have won the Felix without it, and would never have gotten the memory from Sluggy that was so badly needed. Harry was grateful and very appreciative of the help he got from the HBP untill he found it was someone he hates. He knows he owes Snape for some of his successes that year.

#3 (you know, you could have made this a different thread;) ) Hepzibah and Zacharias . . . could be. You would think that Sluggy might have mentioned it. I find it a little bit doubtful judging by what we know of wizarding "pure bloods" they are almost all related in some way. She was definately wealthy and "important" enough to be of Sluggy's interest. Hmmmmm.

Now for powers of the artifacts. I would assume that something like a locket would be likely to have some type of protective charm. Something like if you wear it you are protected from certain things, kind of like a shield charm. Bet that is why we see Harry wearing it in the US cover. The cup . . . Being Hufflepuffs, it wouldn't be anything dangerous. Perhaps that it would protect from any poision drank from it (something DD could have used in the cave perhaps) It could have a charm that it can magicaly produce any potion you need. There are limitless options realy, but I think it likely that it will be something beneficial to Harry!

A very good catch on the powers of the objects . . . I remember reading that now, and I had wondered about it too, but didn't think too long on it (I think I was thinking too much about the goblin made armor and the cover of the UK children's book at that point!:p ) I would say that both items as well as being Horcruxes, will have some type of power to help Harry in his quest. Either that, or less likely that the "natural" power of the object is somehting Harry will have to know or understand to destroy it.

This is what I love about this forum . . . we all see different things when we read, because we all have different backgrounds and personalities. When we come together like this to discuss things it gives each of us a new viewpoint from whitch to see.
 

happy_hannah

Time Turners
couldnt have said it better myself, im almost done re-reading philosophers stone, so get ready for a post on that, ive already noticed so much foreshadowing!
!
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
It is allways so cool to go back and read things again, you pick up more each time. It realy makes you appreciate just how much JKR put into all of it before she actualy started writing! All the clues and hints are there. And . . . we will see even more that we missed after we read DH, and of course say to ourselves . . . "how did I miss that?!"
 

happy_hannah

Time Turners
Hey WOW! I just finished the other day too! guess we're all getting ready for DH!

OK, #1, that is curious that he never suspected Riddle I would say even more curious that Hermionie didn't think it! . . . my guess is that I think he knew Riddle/Voldemort would never have bragged of being a half blood. Now, Snapes Mother being there with Voldemort, we are starting to collect a small groups of "classmates" for young Riddle. We know Hagrid, McGonagal, Myrtle, Prince, and someone else I can't remember right now who would have been there around the same time. Can't help but wonder how that is going to play out..

isnt it funny how those who knew each other at school become enemies/friends in later life? sirius/james vs snape, harry and draco, i suspect arthur and luscius and now voldemort and his schoolmates , i didnt know mcgonagall was there too, in which book is that stated? hogwarts can't close it is the events that happen there that seem to effect a persons whole lifetime
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
HH said:
i didnt know mcgonagall was there too, in which book is that stated?
It wasn't stated specificaly in a book, but in a thread a long time ago, (would be cool if it could be dug up somewhere) we had discussed ages, and someone looked at the birthdates, and McGonagal was right at the same age as Riddle, so at least if she went to Hogwarts, she would have been there at the same time. And I still can't remember what other character was a student at that time too, but I remember that there was one other. The only thing, after seeing DD's pensive lessons with Harry in HBP, I think if any of these others that were there at the same time would have had anything to contribute DD would have included it . . . unless he just died before showing them?
 

Seeker615

Ghosthunter
I almost finished with HBP. I have about 3 chapters.

I also wondered if Zacharias Smith is related to Hepzipah Smith. I know it is a common last name. Is Zacharias also a Hufflepuff? If he is there could be a connection.

My question is will Harry go get the potion book now that he knows Snape is the author of all those tips? I ownder if there is anything else of importance in that book Harry will need?

I still don't see Snape as evil. I never have. I think he may work for his own gain but even when he had ample opportunity to take Harry to Voldemort at the end of the book he left him. If Voldemort wants Harry why wouldn't he just take Harry right then and there?
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
Seeker said:
If Voldemort wants Harry why wouldn't he just take Harry right then and there?
You know, that's a good point. Snape was stopping the DEs from killing Harry, saying that Voldemort wanted to do it himself, but why not imobilize him and take him with him? curious . . .
 

happy_hannah

Time Turners
i must admit a flag went up in my head when i read snape saying 'leave him, he is for the dark lord' but i always assumed it was because Snape needed harry, to defeat voldemort.
i wonder why McGonagall never mentions the fact she was there at the same time as Riddle, hmmm she'd be the head girl, prefect type i wonder if she ever got to know him, i can imagine she would have had a crush on him too, every girl did
 

Dr Winterbourne

Time Turners
I feel pretty obvious saying this, but one other student there with Tom Riddle was Hagrid.

How public is the knowledge that Riddle is Voldemort? Does Hagrid know?
 

Seeker615

Ghosthunter
I would think that the order knows that Voldemort was Tom Riddle. not sure about rest of the public. We know Slughorn knows because he felt terrible about giving him info on horcruxes.
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
I thought I had listed Hagrid as being there . . . but there was one more that would have been there that I can remember now . . . we figured it out by birthdates that were listed on her site. hmmmm

As far as to who knows Voldemort's true identity . . . It was said that he already had his own gang of folowers in school, the first deatheaters . . . so, at least some of them know his "secret" I don't know whether DD would have told the Order members or not, I'm just not sure how much help it is to most to know of his background. Helpful to Dumbledore and Harry to know about the horcruxes, but I'm still not certain as to what was proven to Harry showing him Merope, and riddle in the orphanage . . . perhaps to give him some level of sympathy for Riddle?
 

Sir Cadogan

Noble Heart, Steely Sinew
...but I'm still not certain as to what was proven to Harry showing him Merope, and riddle in the orphanage . . . perhaps to give him some level of sympathy for Riddle?

I'm sure you're perfectly right with this guess, SPF. I happened to come across the relevant passage when listening to the CDs lately, and I'll quote some lines from that chapter - it's just before Harry and Dumbledore dive into DD's memory of his visit to the orphanage:

JKRowling in HP6 said:
[Dumbledore:] "... In any case, as you are about to see, Merope refused to raise her wand even to save her own life."

"She wouldn't even stay alive for her son?"

Dumbledore raised his eyebrows. "Could you possibly be feeling sorry for Lord Voldemort?"

"No," said Harry quickly, "but she had a choice, didn't she, not like my mother —"

"Your mother had a choice too," said Dumbledore gently. "Yes, Merope Riddle chose death in spite of a son who needed her, but do not judge her too harshly, Harry. She was greatly weakened by long suffering and she never had your mother's courage ..."

Although Harry quickly denies "feeling sorry" for LV, I'm sure he does pity the orphan boy, as Dumbledore suggests. And I'm also sure that this will be important in the final showdown.
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
Sir Cadogan said:
Although Harry quickly denies "feeling sorry" for LV, I'm sure he does pity the orphan boy, as Dumbledore suggests. And I'm also sure that this will be important in the final showdown.

Could this be where the "love" issue truly comes into play? Harry's ability to understand, and not just sympathise, but empathise with the young Tom? I don't know though . . . it sounds just a little too mushy for HP. But it must have some purpose!
 
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