**Spoiler - Regrets **

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Dumbledore HBP Pg534-536 said:
'I don't want ... don't make me ...'

'... don't like ... want to stop ...'

'I don't want to ... let me go ...'

'make it stop, make it stop'

'No, no, no ... no .. I can't ... I can't, don't make me, I don't want to ...'

'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'

'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'

'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

'No more, please, no more ...'

'I want to die! I want to die! Make it stop, make it stop, I want to die!'

'KILL ME'
OK, I have to get all your thoughts on this ...
It is something I am really keen to hear what you all thought this was about - what was making Dumbledore speak like this (and I dont mean the green liquid!) .. basically, give me your thoughts on big D ...
 

LovingHarryPotter

Time Turners
Maybe by him saying that stuff it brought back how he burnt his hand so bad. Maybe it brought back that pain he suffered from his hand being so badly damaged.

He may have wanted to die from the pain, and knowing nothing could fix it.
 

Tonks

Unspeakable
I think it is extremely interesting that he mentions other people - "Don't hurt them!" .. Obviously, Dumbledore feels responsible for something that caused others pain.. or led Voldemort or one of the Death Eaters to hurt others in front of him because of something Dumbledore did..?

It's obvious he is feeling extremely guilty about either one huge thing or a number of small things here. I think this is a good place to mention that he had such power in controlling the Order the first time Voldemort was powerful - maybe that led to some deaths due to some mission he sent some of the members on and he felt really guilty about that?
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Re: **Spolier - Regrets **

Dumbledore drank the potion knowing full well that Voldemort would not allow the person who drank it to die on the island as he'd want to know how they knew about the Horcrux and how they managed to get to the basin. But he also added that whatever the potion did it would be something that would make the drinker unable to take the locket, and would possibly kill them eventually. Dumbledore drank the potion knowing he might die doing so - but did it anyway.

I guess I could associate some of what Dumbledore said under the influence of the potion possibly to the prophecy.

The Cave - HBP said:
"It's all my fault, all my fault," he sobbed. "Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh please make it stop and I'll never, never again...."


Thinking of the prophecy and what we learned about it in HBP - could it be that Dumbledore was expressing his regrets at even making a record of the prophecy. If he'd have kept it to himself; never made a record of it or wiped Snape's memory the night he caught him spying, Voldemort would have never found out about it - Voldemort wouldn't have killed James and Lily, and Harry wouldn't be facing either being murdered or becoming a murderer. The prophecy would have simply passed with no action taken by anyone. "please make it stop," stop the forward progression of the prophecy that Voldemort started by marking Harry as his equal.

The Cave - HBP said:
"I'm sorry, Harry; I should have said, he would not want to immediately kill the person who reached this island," Dumbledore corrected himself. "He would want to keep them alive long enough to find out how they managed to penetrate so far through his defenses and, most importantly of all, why they were so intent upon emptying the basin. Do you forget that Lord Voldemort believes that he alone knows about his Horcruxes."


I'd assume some of the other things could be related to pain - it seemed that he was in a great deal of pain at the end. I wonder if the potion was going to kill him eventually and he knew that to be the case before he drank it? Maybe he did have a few things to get off his concious, but upon reflection, it seems that nothing he said seemed to be very damning.
 

kashlie

afraid of my own shadow
I think they were Dumbledore's true feelings. The guilt he feels for the deaths of Order members, because he is the leader, and they die for him, and the wizarding world. Deep down he would do anything to have those people alive again, and even though we know Voldemort has to be defeated, Dumbledore has probably thought on occasion that if it meant saving the lives of all those people - Harry's parent included, he'd never challenge Voldemort...
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
That is such an interesting passage. I think when we all read that, it sort of set off bells in our heads. Then JKR comes along and says we'll find out more about Dumbledore in Book 7 and the way she says it isn't at all flattering . . . not like we'll find out he was a fabulous croquet player, but rather, we'll find out something we might not have thought possible . . .

I have hypothesized that perhaps the liquid made the person drinking it relive Voldemort's worst memories through his eyes (like Harry feeling like he was the snake in OotP). If R.A.B. did in fact change the liquid, that could be a possibility.

However, if the liquid simply refills itself and R.A.B. didn't change it at all, I would say that it causes the drinker to relive their own worst moments. And, honestly, the first thing that comes to my conspiracy-laden mind, is that he somehow feels responsible for/was present at Lily and James's deaths.

But, another thing that comes to mind is that perhaps he is seeing the future as a result of his actions. Perhaps he is seeing what is to befall the Hogwarts students . . . because of his cockiness and belief that he has prepared, there is something that will happen to the students or members of the Order or something and he realizes it is all his fault.

Throughout the series, we have seen how detached he is and seemingly unaware of other's emotions sometimes. JKR has said this is because he is extremely intelligent and has never really had an equal with whom to share and confide, so he doesn't have the social graces some people take for granted. Perhaps his trust in his own intelligence will cause the downfall of some people close to him . . .

Just a couple thoughts.
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
My thoughts when readint it were that it was a potion that had the basic effects of a boggart. That the potion caused the drinker to visualize, and feel as if they are living through their worst fear. As protective as Dumbledore is over his school and students, I can see him fearing students being killed because of a mistake he made, and offering himself instead of the students, and we know he would have.
 

yarvelling

Time Turners
Y'know, when I read that part in the book, it occured to me that it wasn't DD speaking..almost as though someone else where speaking, or pleading, through him.....
Those just aren't DD's words, or styles of speech; that begging and pleading is SO different to the dignified manner to which we've become accustomed. Even under the circumstances, it just doesn't 'seem' like DD to crack like that.
And then you know, I got to wondering too about his blackened and damaged arm...we never really got to understand exactly how these injuries happened...merely a reference to destroying the Horcrux in the ring.....would he have to be wearing the ring to destroy it? Would it do so much damage to the wearer? No....I had a vague thought, along the lines of what Blaise has been advocating for some time, that maybe DD had something evil in his past, and maybe it was because of this that DD seemed to crack having drunk the potion. I wondered maybe if at some point in his past whether he'd ever for whatever reason, been branded with the mark of the Death Eaters, and it was the final removal of that evil totum that caused such injury to his arm.....DD could have been caught in the Imperius curse for a time, and forced to swear allegiance to Voldemort....
It could have been this , or something like it that caused him to utter those words....
unlikely, I know! But with JKR? Who can tell!!
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I like the idea it is making him relive a situation - possibly marked as his worst ever memory ...
It seems genuine that whatever he was seeing in his head was pretty horrific - and nothing is more so than if you feel guilt over something ...
I think there is a reason this was added into the book towards the end - at a point where Harry couldn't ask any questions on it ..
It seems poignant and also eludes to an event, an event or situation where Dumbledore wishes he could go back and change ... interesting ...
 

Snuffles

the keepr of the Veil
Can it be possible that DD had actually killed the Potters, if somewhat indirectly, and was forever bound by the guilt? ;) Crazy thought, I know. lol. Just couldn't imagine what was so bad that it could have caused Dumbledore to crack down like that.
I also think it livens up the worst memory of a person's thoughts. Or, as people have said, be the worst memory of another person other than the one who actually drinks it.
 

Tonks

Unspeakable
Snuffles said:
Can it be possible that DD had actually killed the Potters, if somewhat indirectly, and was forever bound by the guilt? ;) Crazy thought, I know. lol. Just couldn't imagine what was so bad that it could have caused Dumbledore to crack down like that.
I don't think that's all that ridiculous.

We know that Dumbledore wasn't the Potters Secret Keeper - after their death I wouldn't be at all surprised if he beat himself up about not pestering them more to let him be their S.K. (assuming Dumbledore is good for discussion purposes here).

Also, there has been speculation that Dumbledore was the other person at the Potters that night - and if so, he may have felt guilty that he was unable to stop Voldemort from killing them.. although I think that's a slight bit of a long shot - :eek:
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
Blaise said:
I like the idea it is making him relive a situation - possibly marked as his worst ever memory ...
It seems genuine that whatever he was seeing in his head was pretty horrific - and nothing is more so than if you feel guilt over something ...
I think there is a reason this was added into the book towards the end - at a point where Harry couldn't ask any questions on it ..
It seems poignant and also eludes to an event, an event or situation where Dumbledore wishes he could go back and change ... interesting ...

OK, for the sake of discussion, let's assume for now that you are right. . . could he be regretting that he didn't stop Riddle when he was young and not as powerfull. He never did trust Riddle, even Riddle knew that, but never did anything to stop him. I would say that that would be a BIG regret!
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I will be really honest here - I have no idea what he is really sorry for ... :eek:
I think that he is facing an event and his action lead to a consequence - that much I can fully assume from the passage ...
I could see this in so many ways - ranging from DiG right through to DiE ... irrelevant of his overall outwards appearance there was an event that he had control over - but lives with the regret locked away in his mind ....
Now see - this is the big powerful D that Voldemort fears - in fact the only one he ever feared ...
I wonder - in a far stretch of my mind if this was a role reversal and what Dumbledore was seeing was him looking at someone, who was uttering what he was ...

Afterall - we agree he doesnt seem the type to cower away right ;)
 

Piper

Time Turners
We have to remember that Dumbledore was 150 years old here, he did battle and defeat a very powerful wizzard in 1945, and he did tell Harry something along the lines of he makes mistakes too, and his tend to be of greater magnitude than the mistakes of others.

I have hypothesized that perhaps the liquid made the person drinking it relive Voldemort's worst memories through his eyes (like Harry feeling like he was the snake in OotP). If R.A.B. did in fact change the liquid, that could be a possibility

In another thread, Blaise suggested that the Inferi who jumped when Harry called accio horcrux was really RAB, and I was thinking RAB would have had to have drank a different potion for him to have had time to switch the lockets, and you have given a great piece to that puzzle here!!!

Consider RAB probably felt this was likely the only horcrux that Voldermort had, and felt that once he destroyed it, normal things could kill voldermort again, so knowing it was likely voldermort would be alone when he came to check, he changed the potion to one that would leave Voldermort dying in the cave reliving his own wosrt memories!!!!
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
Piper, I really like the sound of that! It does make perfect sense. Although I am sure that Dumbledore probably does have some real regrests in his past, like said by before, I just can't see him become cowering and afraid like he was. Dumbledore had too much dignity for that.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Piper said:
In another thread, Blaise suggested that the Inferi who jumped when Harry called accio horcrux was really RAB, and I was thinking RAB would have had to have drank a different potion for him to have had time to switch the lockets, and you have given a great piece to that puzzle here!!!

Consider RAB probably felt this was likely the only horcrux that Voldermort had, and felt that once he destroyed it, normal things could kill voldermort again, so knowing it was likely voldermort would be alone when he came to check, he changed the potion to one that would leave Voldermort dying in the cave reliving his own wosrt memories!!!!
That is pretty hot actually - I like that a lot ...

I also think you should look at what he is saying - that is what really makes me take notice ...

HBP - The Cave said:
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'
I look at that and I see a case where Dumbledore made a mistake - a lack of judgement and that is going to lead to at least 2 people dying ...
He is making his case to the person that is going to kill them ...
Thsi could be of course reflective - as in he see's this scenario based on events - or it could be realtime and he is re-living a situation he could have stopped something happening ...
I of course need not imply anymore ...
Wonder if Dumbledore spent the last 16 years also trying to make up for a mistake - perhaps he was redeeming as well?
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
Blaise said:
Wonder if Dumbledore spent the last 16 years also trying to make up for a mistake - perhaps he was redeeming as well?

This could get deep Blaise. . .very speculative. . .Could Dumbledore have prevented this?. . .Did he let something slip to set a trap that failed?. . .Was this possibly a veiled confession to Harry?
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Lets face it no matter which way you go on this - it is going to be speculative - so I say all please let rip ...

I just read the words over and over and it seems to fit in with that he could have prevented something - it involved more than one person and it's almost like from the pleading that he may have had a chance to prevent it ...
Of course it is also plausible that the last part he could now be reflecting back on the outcome - knowing what he knew afterwards he just ran through his mind pleading for their lifes ...
It could be that the liquid is used to make someone relive their worst nightmare - in such case Dumbledore is seeing something that upset him back when ...
 

gbogbo

Time Turners
Does this strike anyone as possibly the conversation that took place at Godric's Hollow?

For example:

"Make it stop, make it stop" (James? - while being cruicioed?)

"Dumbledore screamed." (Lily? - her scream as James is AKed?)

"It's all my fault, it's all my fault..." (Peter Pettigrew / Snape? - as he realizes what he's brought on.)

"Don't hurt them, don't hurt them, please, please, it''s my fault, hurt me instead." (Peter Pettigrew / Snape? - as he sees what is about to befall Lily and Harry)

"Please, please, please no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything..." (Lily? - as Voldemort gives her the terrible choice of releasing Harry?"

"KILL ME!" (Again, Lily? - begging Voldemort to kill her instead of Harry --- remember what JK says about Lily making a choice)

If so, then this could have been what was seen through the eyes of Voldemort.

Is this scene just giving us more details about that night? Is it something that Dumbledore wanted Harry to know? What other voices are there? Snape? Hagrid? What was going on with the "I don't want ... Don't make me ..." and "... Let me go ... "?
 
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christina

Time Turners


i think it is possible that DD was some sort of secret-keeper and sumbody, most likely voldemort, was using crucio on him to get him to talk :confused: but i dont think dumbledore would crack that ez though so he mustve been in sooo much pain i know i'll probably get ridiculed for this but it's just a thought
 
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