The Elder Wand

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
Piper said:
I don't get Harry's plan to just return it to the toom anyway. Especially like someone here mentioned, with Ron foaming at the mouth over it....
hmmmm . . . What a sequel series that could make! Ron becomes the new evil wizard fighting for world dominance, goes after Harry and the wand . . . If he plays his cards right, and doesn't let on to Harry that he is headed in that direction, he could just walk up to Harry who suspects nothing . . . one quick spell and the unbeatable wand is his!
 

Jimenem

Vampyre Elder
All I'm saying is Grindlewald HAD to have had its allegiance for DD to later have its allegiance, and therefore Draco, and then Harry. If Grindlewald never had its allegiance then the wand would still belong to Gregorovitch. And it wouldn't have worked properly for anyone later. None of the story would have made any sense. Also the reason it didn't work when Voldemort stole it from DD is because DD was not the master of the elder wand when he died. Draco was.
 

Jimenem

Vampyre Elder
hmmmm . . . What a sequel series that could make! Ron becomes the new evil wizard fighting for world dominance, goes after Harry and the wand . . . If he plays his cards right, and doesn't let on to Harry that he is headed in that direction, he could just walk up to Harry who suspects nothing . . . one quick spell and the unbeatable wand is his!

Actually, yeah you may have said this to be funny. But you are very right. That kind of power is tempting as hell, and what Harry did with the wand was incredibly unstable. there's not even any magic protecting it as far as I'm aware. If Harry gets disarmed by anyone and they take his wand, even his phoenix feather one, the elder wands allegiance will transfer to whoever took his wand from him. Then all they had to do was tear open DD's tomb. Ok, for a stranger this would be unlikely, but as SPF said. Ron and Hermione both know where it is, and how easy it would be for them to own it. Kinda in-secured isn't it?
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
OK, but we also have to think about just who knew of the elder wands presence and history at this point. The trio knew . . . Voldemort and those close to him knew, but they all died . . . Xenophilius knew of the legend and believed in it, but didn't know who had it. Second, who knew that Harry left the wand with DD? the trio . . . no one else that I can think of . . . so, unless Ron and Hermionie turn alegience, (which I really believe unlikely when 19 years later they are all very prominent on the "good" side and working toward a common goal. So, is it secure? I think secure enough.
 

claymore04

Time Turners
Ron gets drunk, clever and angry.

Q:"Ron and Hermione looking at it with reverance that, even in his sleep-deprived state, he did not like to see."
 

Piper

Time Turners
Jim,
I guess so, I guess Grindewald did have to be a true master for Dumbledore to have been. I keep seeing sources all over the net saying that Grindewald stunned Georgovitch on his way out, I cannot find that in the book, either I am just missing it, or I have missed an interview somewhere I guess. It must not matter anyway because Draco did not stun Dumbledore or anything though.

It is also the general consensus that Dumbledore did not intend for Snape to be the master of the elder wand, but that he intended for himself to be the last master, since Snape would not have actually defeated him. So why he sent the trio on a hunt for Hallows when he intended for the wand to never have another master I do not understand but anyway, that is the general consensus.
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
I believe that DD did indeed intend to be the wand's last master, but, he also knew that Voldemort would try to steal it from him even in the tomb. There do seem to be holes . . . perhaps this is hat JKR was meaning when she told Radcliffe "Dumbledore is giving me problems"
 

Dr Winterbourne

Time Turners
DD sent the trio on the quest for the DH, but he hoped that Harry would end up not seeking them, didn't he?

Also, if it hadn't been for the Draco thing, and someone took the wand from the tomb, would it then belong to them? Would that count as defeating the owner? If it did, then DD's plan was pretty flawed. It would have meant V was the actual master when he had the wand, and maybe a devoted Elder Wand could have found a way around the numerous protections Harry had, and managed to kill him.
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
A step further . . . if DD had died from the potion, and Malfoy never needed to disarm him, and . . . Snape hadn't killed him . . . then would the wand ever have a master again?
 

Piper

Time Turners
She was probably fretting that eventually people would figure out that she had Dumbledore introduce them to the idea of the Deathly Hallows for no good reason. I am sure failing to see the point now.

Here is Dumbledores thought process it seems:

"Well lets see, hopefully when Voldemort took Harry's blood, that guarenteed that Harry will end up living when Voldemort tries to kill him again. All I have to do is ensure that he willingly goes to his death, I can use Snape for that, just have him break the news to Harry that he is a Horcrux too. As long as Harry and his friends manage to get all of the Horcruxes destroyed, Voldemort will be gone.

I could leave them clear, concise directions on how to destroy Horcruxes, but why don't I just leave them very vague clues concerning the Deathly Hallows instead? Of course, it wouldn't matter if Harry had all 3 items, that doesn't make you immortal, even being Master of the Elder wand wouldn't really save him in a duel with Voldemort if this blood protection thing doesn't work out, all that is just a fairy tale, and, I am going to be the LAST Master of the Elder Wand anyway, Snape won't truely be defeating me. Yes, Yes, I definately want these 3 kids who are the last hope for humanity distracted with the Deathly Hallows wild goose chase. If it turns out that they couldn't work out the silly details of how to destroy Horcruxes without killing themselves, because I didn't leave good instructions, and Voldemort doesn't die because they were busy worrying with fairy tales, oh well".
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
So, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but WHAT WAS VOLDEMORT
THINKING?

We learned that the Elder Wand had to be taken away from its current owner to be possessed by another. The owner of the wand had to be killed or disarmed, beaten in some way, for the next person to be master, or whatever, of the wand.

So why is it then that Voldemort did not kill Snape, but made Nagini do it? Even if Snape had been the master of the Elder Wand, would that not have made Nagini the wand's master and not Voldemort?

Thoughts?
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
A very good point forte . . . I hadn't thought much about that but it does seem odd there, and Voldemort could have simple called for Snape and done a fast AK before Snape knew what hit him . . . it may have worked if Snape were the master though . . . Nagini was also Voldemort's Horcrux, she contained part of his soul. Also Nagini only killed Snape on Voldemort's order, in other words, Voldemort thinking Snape was the wands master, chose to use Nagini as his weapon . . . perhaps thinking/knowing that the wand he held in his hand would not atack its own master.

But . . . in any case . . . Voldemort wasn't exactly known for thinking things through very well, was he?
 

Lovegood54

Luna's Biggest Fan!
Firstly, the reason DD dropped hints for the trio about the Deathly Hallows (through the book he gave hermione) was because he was hoping to slow them down a bit. here is the quote:

"'But the cloak i took out of vain curiosity, and so it could never have worked for me as it works for you, its true owner. The stone I would have used in an attemptto drag back those who are at peace, rather than to enable my self-sacrifice, as you did. You are the worthy possessor of the Hallows.'
Dumbledore patted Harry's hand, and Harry looked up at the old man and smiled; he could not help himself. How could he remain angry with Dumbledore now?
'Why did you have to make it so difficult?'
'I am afraid I counted on Miss Ganger to slow you up, Harry. I was afraid you hot head might dominate your good heart. I was scared that, if presented outright with the facts about those tempting objects, you might seize the Hallows as I did, at the wrong time, for the wrong reasons. If you laid hands on them, I wanted you to possess them safely.' " (Deathly Hallows US edition, ch. 35, pg. 720 4th paragraph)

ok, what can we gather from this passsage? basically, DD wanted harry to have the stone, since he put the stone in the snitch, and left the clue "I open at the close" for harry. he left the book with hermione so that she would wonder what the heck that symbol was (the one that represents the Hallows) and was counting on Hermione to take a long time to figure out what i meant. why? so that when harry did find out about the hallows, he wouldnt make DD mistake when DD found out about them. namely, seeking them for the reason of defeating someone (Voldemort).

as many will remember, when harry did find out about the Hallows, he did just what DD didnt want him to do: seek them for the destruction of another. Harry dwelled on the Hallows and FORGOT about the Horcruxes, feeling the Hallows would be enough to kill Voldemort. what stopped harry from this manic search? Dobby. That little elf died saving Harry (a crime i believe Bellatrix will go to heck for.) and harry dug the elf's grave muggle style (that is, with a shovel, not wand) while digging, harry decided that the Horcruxes are what he should be searching for.

ok, as for the elder wand. DD intended to die with out being defeated, and figured Harry wouldnt ever really figure out where the wand was. and in the case that harry did find out, he had planned on dieing undefeated, so the wand wouldnt work for harry anyway, or atleast it would work like a regular wand.

now what if harry never found out about the hallows? well, DD probably thought that if harry never found out, it would be alright, cause harry would just be confused when he saw the ring in the snitch. if harry hadnt found out what the hallows were, he may have just put the ring on and felt strengthened by being reminded of DD, since that was the horcrux that DD destroyed.

so yeah, DD planned that Harry would end up wit htwo hallows, the stone and cloak. as for the wand, he didnt want anyone to have the wand, cause he knew it was dangerous. but, unforseen to DD, draco beat him, thus draco became the master and never knew it. Harry luckily beat Draco, and became the master of the wand. Thus, harry became master of the hallows, something DD never planned on. hopefully i have cleared some stuff up with out being confusing.

oh, and DD was probably hoping to show Harry how to destroy a horcrux when they got back with the locket, but died before he was able to. and since DD isnt psychic, when he saw the end was near, he knew that Hermione knew about the horcruxes, so his plan B would have been our little book-worm going out and either finding or buying a book that talked about Horcruxes. which she did, she summoned the book or books from his office. and she knew all along how to destroy the horcruxes. afterall, she would have figured out whyin the heck DD wanted them to have the sword. if not, she probably could have figured out how to cast Fiendfyre to destroy it. that spell may have been in the book that talked about horcruxes. and though hermione herself said that she would never have tried it, i bet that in the case that all else failed, and they had all the horcruxes with no way of destroying them, she would have tried it.

sorry bout the length. lot to say.
 
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