The Riddle's House Pt. 2

I read the first post about the Riddle House, unfortunatly getting there after it was closed. Here is a bit of it:

Boing said:
The three people that were killed in the Riddle house were Voldemort's dad, whose name is also Tom Riddle (he told Harry in CoS that he was named after his filthy Muggle father), and Voldemort's grandparents. So, the older people were the grandparents and the middle-aged son was the dad. The skinny boy was Tom Riddle, Jr. (later known as Voldemort). He never forgave his dad for abandoning his mom and went and killed the whole family that night.

I would like to challange this theory. What if it is really Tom Riddle and his grandparents that were in the house. JKR mentions a dark haired boy in glasses, possibly Harry Potter?

We have already seen time travel used in the septology, what if Harry were to go back and kill Voldemort before his rise to power? This would defeat him before he was even an enemy. Of couse, "bad things happen to wizards to meddle with time" what would the repurcussions of such action be?
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
The people who were killed are described as "elderly Mr. and Mrs. Riddle" and "their grown-up son, Tom." So, firstly, the attacks are said to have happened "half a century ago" according to GoF. Voldemort (I'm calling him that to avoid confusion with his dad) would have been about 18. So, he's not what I would call grown-up. Also, Voldemort's mom is dead, so for there to have been an "elderly Mrs. Riddle," Mr. Riddle would have been remarried . . . I guess it could happen, but I don't know. The third thing that makes me think it's not possible is that the grown-up son, Tom, was living with the Riddles. There's no way Voldemort would have been living with his parents, especially his dad!

Just my opinions based on that first chapter, but I really think it was just Voldemort coming after his dad.
 
I still like my time travel idea, perhaps Voldmort did go back and kill his father but Harry ambushed him?

JKR said there was a dark haired boy...my mind always jumps to Harry. I just think there is more to this than we are seeing now.
 

Tonks

Unspeakable
For pure information here, just to enforce that Tom Riddle, Jr., has black hair too..
Chamber of Secrets - Chapter 13: The Very Secret Diary
'A boy of about sixteen entered, taking off his pointed hat. A silver prefect's badge was glinting on his chest. He was much taller than Harry, but he, too, had jet-black hair.'
I really think that Tom Riddle (Voldemort) killed his dad and his dad's parents that night, but this is quite interesting speculation involving Harry. However, I'm still a bit reluctant to think that Harry is so capable of such murder.. :eek: I guess i just dont like the thought - that seems so much more like something Voldemort would do really..
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Have to admit - I was one of the people that didnt get this whole part when I first read it and I composed this lovely theory based on time and what was going on - only for someone to point out the Riddle Jnr and Snr thing - which as much as I hate it from a normal point of view - it still is the most fitting.

JKR has said on a number of occasions - including CoS 'Heir of Slytherin' how much Harry and Riddle/Voldemort look alike ... now we know that there is no decendency from Voldemor cause JKR said as much - but I wonder why she seems to like to point out the similarity?

.. and no, I am not adverse to thinking Harry going back in time to stop Voldemort - but I have this warped part in the back of my mind they are 2 of the same ... and no, I dont need 16 thousand posts now telling me how wrong I am ... :rolleyes:
 

kaz

Professor of Potterology
I think the reason she points out the similarities between Harry and Voldemort is because they are both great wizards from a young age with alot of potential- but are in completely different frame of mind. Kind of putting the same person to battle but on opposite sides.
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
The similarities are more than just abilities, though. JKR indeed does make a point that Harry even looks like Voldemort in a couple ways. At the end of CoS, Tom Riddle says to him that they look a lot alike . . . I think that she draws the parallel for several reasons. One of which is as Kaz pointed out - they have a similar aptitude for magic, were both abandoned in certain ways as children, but they have chosen different paths up to this point (and we know a big part of the series is about choice).

Another reason could be more subtle, like Blaise is pointing out - there could be some sort of connection between them somehow - perhaps when some of Voldemort got transferred to Harry when Harry was a baby or something similar to that.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
kaz said:
I think the reason she points out the similarities between Harry and Voldemort is because they are both great wizards from a young age with alot of potential- but are in completely different frame of mind. Kind of putting the same person to battle but on opposite sides.
Very similar - but in essence divided maybe?
I reckon that would work well in a Harry Potter book :D

JKR makes the comparisions between the 2 but is always very clear their intention differ vastly - and I can respect and deal with that.
But the fact they look alike - share some life experiences etc - I am sure that isnt just an 'on the off chance' kind of situation - I think there is substance to the link JKR has tried to make ... one thing we know is that Harry isnt an offspring - or offspring of an offspring ;)
Excites me how she could link them ... for some reason I am seeing the Riddle side of the family come into play here - isnt it strange to be called Riddle in a book full of mysteries ;)
 

Norbert

Time Turners
Blaise said:
Have to admit - I was one of the people that didnt get this whole part when I first read it ... and no, I am not adverse to thinking Harry going back in time to stop Voldemort - but I have this warped part in the back of my mind they are 2 of the same ... and no, I dont need 16 thousand posts now telling me how wrong I am ... :rolleyes:

I have to agree with you mate. The first time I read it, I was sure that the teenage boy was Harry! Not until I had read the entire book and then gone back through that opening chapter (a couple of times) did I convince myself that the teenage boy was Tom Riddle Jr. and that the three victims were Tom Riddle Sr. and his parents...

And your theories regarding (what is it that you call it - Oroborus) the snake eating its own tail are not unwholely unfounded and without reason. I may not wholeheartedly agree with them but, reading them are extremely enjoyable, my friend! JKR has drawn more than several like comparisons between Tom Riddle Jr and Harry. They are connected via the Scar, through which Harry received many of Voldemorts abilities (parseltounge for instance), and now they are connected via blood - it almost makes them relative!!!

I am not sure about them being one and the same though. It makes more sense to me that they are equal opposites. Each 1/2 of a whole. Along the lines of the ying and the yang.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
See we know they cant be direct family - JKR said that Voldemort has no family - would also stop him being the last decendant ...
But - and this is what intrigues me, is that JKR spends so much time pointing towards how much alike they are ...
We know that they will always be divided in their choices - Voldemort for the seduction of power and death and Harry with good and helping people ... that is where you get the 'whole' from - they are almost like as you said a ying and yang - 2 parts of the same - but in essence divided :D
 

Dr Winterbourne

Time Turners
This isn't really related to what was being debated here, so long ago, but does relate to the Riddle house, so...

Who owns the Riddle House? It says in chpt 1 of GoF that someone owns it for 'tax purposes'. Could this be Dumbledore? Could he be keeping it safe and clean, for further hunting and possible clues? Perhaps he will bequeath it to someone, when the will is read.

Or, could it be Voldemort. i find it hard to beleive that he would be interested in his Mugle heritage, but he did go back there, assuming it was a safe place where he would not be disturbed. He would know that for sure if he owned it... but then, he'd been gone for 11 years, so probably not.

So, I'm sticking with Dumbledore. I don't think she would have mentioned an owner at all if it wasn't going to come up again. We're all pretty sure Harry's going to his parents house - perhaps there will be a motif of returning to these ancestral places. it has been suggested elsewhere that Little Hangleton is where they are flying to on that dragon. i disagree, but perhaps.

Back to my main point - I suggest Dumbledore owns the Riddle house.
 

happy_hannah

Time Turners
it is suspicious that j.k included this whole chapter about the house, perhaps because it is where a horcrux lies? (it was actually me that suggested this in another thread), it would be a place where voldemort felt 'powerful' and the killing would be a significant one. As for harry being the boy the caretaker see's i doubt it, we know tom riddle went to the riddle house as harry saw the memory between tom and Morfin and Morfin tells him he looks like tom riddle senior and where he lives, but then tom did then get morfin to confess to the killings, why then put the ring in the Gaunt house? Its nowhere near as grand as the riddle house would have been at the time....hmmmm
but then riddle has his father killed before he knew of horcrux's because in the pensieve when he asks slughorn he is wearing the ring, so did he then go back and put the ring into gaunt house, then also he could have put one in the riddle house
 

Dr Winterbourne

Time Turners
The Gaunt house is a link to his illustrious heritage - that is why I think he put the horcrux there. The Riddle House would seen, I think, the more mundane of the two, despite its size.

But then again, he did choose to go back there.

I think it is fairly certain that the dark-haired figure at the house was Voldemort, doing the deed - and not a time-travelling Harry on a Sarah Connor mission.

As to the appearance of Tom Riddle and Harry Potter being similar, my thoughts are that early on, for the first time reader of CoS, it fuels spectualtion that Harry could be the heir of Slytherin, and opens the way for a potential Luke Skywalker/Darth Vadar 'I am your father' confrontation in the mind of that first time reader.

But now, their similarities, I think, are part of a proud tradition of the hero and the villain of a staory being essentially linked - almost two sides of the same coin. The Dark Lord is a murderer, a would-be usurper of power. After he defeats V in DH, the famous Boy Who Lived will be in a position from which he could probably rise to power himself - if he chooses too. (I remember a fascinating thread on this from a few months ago, involving a Bible quote, saying there will be a vacuum when the evil is cast out, that will be filled by evil if it is not filled with goodness). Harry, thus, could be a potential Light Lord.

Where Voldemort is a murderer, Harry is a scourge - putting to death all that should die, like a bolt of divine fire from heaven. But Harry kills not for pleasure or gain, but because it is right that things die, so that life can be born, pheonix-like, from the ashes.

They share the one mind, they share a destiny, many features of their lives are similar, or provide interesting contrasts to each other. They are a point and counterpoint in the debate in the same symphony.

For Tom to plant a Horcrux in the Riddle house would surely be like Harry choosing to honour the Dursleys.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I believe the Riddle's were the one's using the place as a tax dodge.
I'm sure it was even referred to as the Riddle house and maybe before they were killed and it made it infamous?
As for the 'boy behind the grassy knoll' - I am pretty certain that is Riddle Jnr after reading HBP ... although the 'Sarah Connor' angle would still be pretty sweet!
 

Arwan

Time Turners
I think it is possible that the dark haired boy could be Neville, he also has reason to want voldemort gone, after what happened to his parents.
 
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