The wand chooses the Wizard ...

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I personally think that given the reaction of other wands in Harry's hands that there was nothing untowards on here - I just figure that the right wand would cause the right reaction as we saw.
With so many wands that could have been given to Harry - with the chances of Harry actually getting the specific wand that even Dumbledore might have a stretch with making that happen.

More likely in my mind is that the wand reacted to the presence of Voldemort in Harry.
Also thinking on - I dont think anyone could have a any real imput into it - otherwise why arm a young Riddle with a wand that has a Phoenix feather in there - and one we assume to have come from Fawkes - Dumbledore's loyal pet ;)
 

Athena

Time Turners
Blaise said:
I personally think that given the reaction of other wands in Harry's hands that there was nothing untowards on here - I just figure that the right wand would cause the right reaction as we saw.

In the book, Olivander snatched the other wands out of Harry's hands before anything could happen. One was so quickly Harry barely raised it when Olivander took it away from him.

With so many wands that could have been given to Harry - with the chances of Harry actually getting the specific wand that even Dumbledore might have a stretch with making that happen.

I don't think it would be too much for a talented wand maker, who knew all the wands he had ever sold, to be able to make a wand that would work in the hands of the son of 2 of his customers.

More likely in my mind is that the wand reacted to the presence of Voldemort in Harry.
Also thinking on - I dont think anyone could have a any real imput into it - otherwise why arm a young Riddle with a wand that has a Phoenix feather in there - and one we assume to have come from Fawkes - Dumbledore's loyal pet ;)
umm not sure there was any reason to think twice of Tom Riddle as an 11 year old using the wand with Fawkes tail feather in it. There was nothing overtly evil about him until later in his life (ok maybe only a couple a years)
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
Just to respond to the whole Draco/Narcissa wand thing - I think we discussed that a few pages back. Basically, it didn't actually say she was buying his wand, just that she was looking. Perhaps she had a few in mind she wanted him to look at - certain woods/cores, etc. There might be some that are better for certain spells, so she just went in a asked Ollivander to bring a couple specimens out for Draco to try later on.
 

kashlie

afraid of my own shadow
LOL Narcissa probably wanted to make sure Draco didn't get a wussy wand. I daresay they have a history of 'strong' wands in their family. Of course, if DD can have a wand made for Harry, who's to say the Malfoy's haven't had their sons made?

I have been thinking about when the Phoenix would have given these feathers. It seems unlikely that it gave them both at the same time, because that would mean Harry's wand sat in Ollivander's shop for, well a very long time (I have to assume they were made well before Riddle went to Hogwarts). I find it hard to believe that the wand would remain untouch for that long.

So then we assume Riddle's was made, and chose him, but had no great significance until it was used on Harry. Which makes it an old wand. Then DD had Fawkes give another feather, and had Ollivander make the brother wand specifically for Harry.

And Ollivander says they use 'unicorn hairs, phoenix tail feathers, and the heartstrings of dragons' which I take to mean more than one phoenix has given his feathers, but only one has given twice, and that, oddly, is the faithful friend of DD.

Just reading the paragraph where Ollivander tells Harry how he sold Voldemort his wand...it is interesting...

'I'm sorry to say I sold the wand that did it.' he said softly. 'Thirteen and a half inches. Yew. Powerful wand, very powerful, and in the wrong hands ... Well, if I'd known what that wand was going out into the world to do ...'


Is that a statement? Did Ollivander know he had put that wand in the wrong hands, but dismiss it because 'the wand chooses the wizard'?

And where he gave Harry the holly/phoenix tail feather wand, 'The pile of tried wands was mounting higher and higher on the spindly chair, but the more wands Mr Ollivander pulled from the shelves, the happier he seemed to become.'

I guess he may have been hoping that Harry wasn't a match for this wand. How do we know, on a limb here, that Neville hadn't tried that very wand, only to use instead his fathers wand (OMG!! brain fart...Neville broke his wand in OotP which means he'll get a new one which means he will actually be able to perform proper magic, because 'you will never get such good results with another wizards wand')
Anyway, Ollivander was happy in a way that Harry was chosen by that particular wand. And because I doubt he knew of the prophecy, he didn't understand just how big a deal this would be. DD could have just asked Ollivander to make young Harry Potter a wand, and not explained why. This is why Ollivander thought it curious...and he may have begun to piece together just how great Harry was going to be.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Athena said:
umm not sure there was any reason to think twice of Tom Riddle as an 11 year old using the wand with Fawkes tail feather in it. There was nothing overtly evil about him until later in his life (ok maybe only a couple a years)
Tom would have grown up bitter and twisted because of his orphane life - JKR herself even said that Voldemort didnt know love - as such I dont think he was a pussycat until he was in Hogwarts - what made him what he is - the drive and desires were always present - as such why would Dumbledore allow the brother cored wand to go to someone with that inside them?
In fact why make 2 in the first place- lets face it - if this was a Dumbledore act - it backfired - literally :D
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Blaise said:
Tom would have grown up bitter and twisted because of his orphane life - JKR herself even said that Voldemort didnt know love - as such I dont think he was a pussycat until he was in Hogwarts - what made him what he is - the drive and desires were always present - as such why would Dumbledore allow the brother cored wand to go to someone with that inside them?

You're right, Blaise. Tom's growing up in the orphanage only fueled his deep resentment and made him learn to hate those who had the things he wanted - power, respect, and in his case he wanted to be feared, thus the whole He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named thing. He told Harry in the chamber that he was good at deceiving people by charming them. I can see that when he was younger and handsome, but I don't think charm would work for him now.

Blaise said:
In fact why make 2 in the first place- lets face it - if this was a Dumbledore act - it backfired - literally :D

If the manufacture of two wands with identical cores with the intent that Voldemort would have one and Harry the other all the years previously was part of Dumbledore's plan, I think it was brilliant. It saved Harry's life - if it weren't for Priori Incantatam Voldemort would have killed Harry in the graveyard. I'm sure that there was a purpose for using Fawkes feather. Mr. Ollivander never said what the wands were good for, like charms or transfiguration --- only that they were powerful and there were only two of them.
 

Athena

Time Turners
Blaise said:
Tom would have grown up bitter and twisted because of his orphane life - JKR herself even said that Voldemort didnt know love - as such I dont think he was a pussycat until he was in Hogwarts - what made him what he is - the drive and desires were always present - as such why would Dumbledore allow the brother cored wand to go to someone with that inside them?
In fact why make 2 in the first place- lets face it - if this was a Dumbledore act - it backfired - literally :D

You have a great point about Riddle.

But, how about if we look from a different perspective? Instead of Dumbledore having 2 wands made at the same time with Fawke's tail feathers as their cores, but one wand was created with that core --- sold to Tom Riddle. Then after the rise and fall of Voldemort, Dumbledore asked Olivander about the wand bought by Riddle? Or in an innocent conversation. Olivander mentions that Riddle had bought the wand with Fawkes' tail feather?

Knowing that 2 "brother" wands won't work properly against each other, Dumbledore has a 2nd wand made. And manipulates it so Harry buys that wand?
He does have at least 9 years of watching Harry to manipulate the qualities that will fit the wand to Harry.

It's just one more thing that can help Harry if he should go against Voldemort before he has the proper training and knowledge.

what do you guys think??
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Athena said:
Knowing that 2 "brother" wands won't work properly against each other, Dumbledore has a 2nd wand made. And manipulates it so Harry buys that wand?
He does have at least 9 years of watching Harry to manipulate the qualities that will fit the wand to Harry.
I agree with Blaise's earlier comment that Dumbledore didn't plan that far in advance. The reason the wand reacted to Harry in such a way was due to his connection to Voldemort and also to Fawkes. As has been mentioned, Harry has a huge connection to Voldemort because of the backfired curse, but also to Fawkes for a reason we do not yet know - but there is definitely a very important connection between Harry and Fawkes, and I'm sure it will be one of the important details JKR will reveal before the end of the story.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I still feel that the wand chose Harry based on whatever Voldemort left in Harry that night.
I still wonder if he really was destine for that wand - or if that whole attack hadn't happened would Harry be using another?
Reason I say this is if Harry survives past killing Voldemort - will the wand still be as effective?

Taking back a step on this - it is plausible that Dumbledore could have planted a second phoenix core wand knowing whatever remained inside Harry from the curse that night would react to it - so in essence you could maintain the thought that Dumbledore was manipulating that aspect.

The point is - the brother wands seem equally matched and then as equally redundant when faced against each other - why would Dumbledore put in place a sequence of events that see's two strong magical people not being able to use the instrument which would serve best as a disposal route against the other?
 

kashlie

afraid of my own shadow
The point is - the brother wands seem equally matched and then as equally redundant when faced against each other - why would Dumbledore put in place a sequence of events that see's two strong magical people not being able to use the instrument which would serve best as a disposal route against the other?



Perhaps more for Harry's protection than Voldemort's defeat?

Blaise do you mean to say that you think if/when Harry defeats Voldemort that any trace of Voldemort will disappear? It makes me feel that Voldemort will attempt the AK on Harry again, and it will backfire again, but this time he takes back what was his, therefore the original AK takes effect and kills him...

So Harry's wand is then useless to him? Imagine, after all he and his wand have been through together, to have to go buy another one!
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
Good thought, Blaise. Is it possible Harry's wand won't work as well if Voldemort is gone? Or will Harry always have part of Voldemort in him?

It is hard to imagine Harry having the same core as Voldemort based upon any other criteria . . . they don't seem to have the same make-up in terms of personalities and goals, so I think it's a good assumption that the wand chose Harry based on the traits of Tom/Voldemort that it felt.

I'd say, if Harry loses the parts of Voldemort from himself, then yeah, he would probably have to find another wand. If not, then I guess not . . . :D

Now, another question that comes to mind is why wands from Fawkes would feel that connection with Voldemort. Does it have something to do with Fawkes? Or is it just based upon the immortality thing?
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
kashlie said:
The point is - the brother wands seem equally matched and then as equally redundant when faced against each other - why would Dumbledore put in place a sequence of events that see's two strong magical people not being able to use the instrument which would serve best as a disposal route against the other?



Perhaps more for Harry's protection than Voldemort's defeat?

Blaise do you mean to say that you think if/when Harry defeats Voldemort that any trace of Voldemort will disappear? It makes me feel that Voldemort will attempt the AK on Harry again, and it will backfire again, but this time he takes back what was his, therefore the original AK takes effect and kills him...

So Harry's wand is then useless to him? Imagine, after all he and his wand have been through together, to have to go buy another one!
I think it is very possible once Voldemort has been erradicated that the connection Harry shared with his will be removed as well.
This could result in a Harry that is in no way as powerful as what he was with the Voldemort 'touch' inside him - and could also mean that the wand that is tuned into the Voldemort essence inside him also stops responding.
As much as Harry shared blood with a Muggle and a Wizard it is possible that Harry is what he is because of what was left inside him post attack.
The connection between the brother core's could be playing the Gryffindor versus Slytherin edge just based on the fact Fawkes looks to be so - well Gryffindor in approach and Voldemort so Slytherin.
The balance comes from Harry that shares the power of the feathers versus the essence of Voldemort/Salazar.
This would be a little tidier in my mind that having Harry the Gry Heir and Voldemort the Sly heir.
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
I don't think the wands give either one the same advantage. The wands aren't identical - they simply share the same cores. Voldemort's wand is made of Yew, Harry's of Holly. I don't recall any reference in the book to Holly, but in the graveyard, it was noted that the trees there were Yew trees. Could be a reference to Voldemort's wand and him as the representative of death or evil?

Paraphrasing from JKR and the information she has listed on her website about the properties of the wood she assigned Harry and Voldemort:

The name Holly comes from the word "Holy" and repels evil, while Yew represents astonishing longevity and can symbolize both death and resurrection and the sap of the yew tree is poisonous. This sounds like it is meant for both wands to be different in their properties and characteristics. It would seem that the wood would affect the powers of the wands, and possibly even make a difference combined with the properties of the person using the wand.

I don't think that Harry will lose any of his connection with his wand just because Voldemort is gone. The connection Harry has might partly be something he got from Voldemort's attack, but I don't think that will go away just because Voldemort is gone. It didn't seem to affect Harry's powers when Voldemort was just a mist and had no powers at all - so I don't see how Voldemort's death could affect Harry's connection with his wand.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
You miss my point hun ...
Harry was had this essence or even connection to Voldemort since his attack.
It has been used by many people to explain how Harry can do some of the things he can - in fact in the books Dumbledore has been known to tell Harry that it was because of the attack that he gained some of Voldemort's powers etc.
What I am suggesting is that the wand - the core - the main part of the wand was responding to whatever it was Voldemort left in Harry - not the physical manifestation of Voldemort from bodiless soul to re-incarnate whole.
What I was suggesting is that it is this that the wand responded to in Harry - and would explain how the wands might not work against each other - I wonder if they are equipped with an 'anti-suicidal' charm that stops a wizard hurting himself to the extreme - as such they cant effect each other while they share the same connection and wand.
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Blaise said:
You miss my point hun ...
Harry was had this essence or even connection to Voldemort since his attack.
It has been used by many people to explain how Harry can do some of the things he can - in fact in the books Dumbledore has been known to tell Harry that it was because of the attack that he gained some of Voldemort's powers etc.
What I am suggesting is that the wand - the core - the main part of the wand was responding to whatever it was Voldemort left in Harry - not the physical manifestation of Voldemort from bodiless soul to re-incarnate whole.
What I was suggesting is that it is this that the wand responded to in Harry - and would explain how the wands might not work against each other - I wonder if they are equipped with an 'anti-suicidal' charm that stops a wizard hurting himself to the extreme - as such they cant effect each other while they share the same connection and wand.

I wonder though - Harry is the prophesized one - I'm sure that Voldemort's transference of the ability to speak Parseltongue and read Voldemort's emotions and see through his eyes has nothing to do with the powers spoken of in the prophecy. Voldemort marked Harry as his equal, thus transferring some of his powers - but I think Harry's connection to his wand is more then just Voldemort's accidental transfer of powers. There is a direct connection between Harry and Fawkes - it's been shown many times - but there is no connection to Voldemort and Fawkes other then his wand core. The times that Harry has faced Voldemort and Fawkes has either been there or Harry has heard the phoenix song; none of these times has Voldemort gained extra stamina or courage from the essence of Fawkes like Harry has. I think Harry's connection to his wand core is solely that of his connection to Fawkes and the essence of goodness depicted by the whole Harry - Dumbledore - Fawkes triangle. Good vs evil - It's seems that Voldemort's only protection from Harry is the fact that they can't fight effectively with their wands, but I don't think we've yet seen the power referred to in the prophecy and I can't begin to guess what that might be, but I don't think it will have anything to do with Harry's wand, Fawkes or Dumbledore. I think it will be quite amazing and a surprise for sure :D

As for the wands not allowing the wizard to hurt himself, I have no idea. I guess that would be like having a gun you couldn't point at yourself :D
 

tobias

Time Turners
Great stuff here: the meaning of the wood of each of their wands is fascinating. The depth of detail that can be found in this series always amazes...

While reading this, I kept wondering about the wands and what they are able to "see" about their prospective owners. Can the inanimate wand see the future of the wizard (or is it just the talents of the wizard)? Is there a particular type/core that chooses "good" wizards, and a type/core that chooses "bad"? Is there a reason that such a "good" type/core as a phoenix feather would choose someone as "bad" as Voldy?

The mischoice of Harry's wand is an interesting thought. Reminds me of the sorting hat- and Harry convinced that object to choose differently- could his strong personality have overrulled the Voldemort in him in the eyes of the wands?
 

Lovegood54

Luna's Biggest Fan!
We are aware that wand cores come from phoenix feathers, dragon heart strings and unicorn tail hairs - how about a tail hair from a Centaur? Possibly from Firenze???

ok i have my doubts that a wnad can be made from the tail hair of a centaur. lets take a quick look at the wand cores we have seen: pheonix tail feathers, dragon heartstrings, unicorn tail hairs, and veela hair (fleur's wand core). ok, now lets look at the creatures these cores come from: the pheonix is a magical creature which has the power to: be reborn from fire upon its death, carry great loads (fawkes easily lifted Harry, Ginny, Ron, and Lockhart), disappear and reappear in a burst of flames (Fantastic Beasts and Where to find them, CoS ch.17, OoTP ch.27), tears that heal wounds and cure poisons (that are in the wounds at least), and a song that strengthens the pure and weakens the impure. Unicorns are magical creatures who have magical properties: their blood will save you even if you are an inch from death, its horn and blood are used in some potions (like the one Voldemort used to resurrect himself), they also have golden hooves and some (if not all) unicorns have silver horns. Dragon are magical creatures that: can breath fire, skin that can only be affected by another dragons fire (meaning they are immune to fire), some dragon eggshells are used in potions (like the chinese fireball, Famous witches card: Quang Po). Veela are also magical creatures with the powers to: can create and throw fire balls, change from beatiful woman-like creatures to ugly bird-like creatures, they sing and dance in a way that ensnares males that hear them. ok, that said here is why i dont believe a centaurs tail hair can be used to make a wand: they dont have any real magic powers themselves! they are just like people, except that they have a horses hindquarters. in my mind, the magical creatures breakdown into 2 subcategories: the magical and the mundane. the magical subcategory contains any creature that has its own magical property, like the cretaures described above. the mundane subcategory includes any other magical creature that doesnt seem to be anythiing other than a creature that defies muggle grouping of animals, like the hippogryph (is it a mamal or bird cause only birds have feathers and only mamals have fur/hair, hippogryphs have both!), centaurs, and the abraxan horses that pulled the beaubatons carriage. there, thats all i have to say on that, not sure if anyone else brought that up.

ok, as far as harry's wand picking him because it sensed Voldemort in him, tell me this: do u really think there is that much of voldemort in harry that a wand would actually think harry is voldemort? i mean, the sorting hat call think harry was voldemort. i think that any of voldy's powers that are in harry are minimal. i think harry's wand chose him because he was destined for it. the fact that it is voldemort's brother is something it can't help (Just like harry has said himself in one of the books). would you think that it was of great importance if you found out that Lily and James Potter had brother/sister wands? i think its only interesting that Harry's wand is the brother wand of voldemort only because it makes dueling harder for these two.
 
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