Voldemort's ancestry exposed?...

Norbert

Time Turners
Voldemort's ancestry exposed?...

Something in the GOF graveyard scene has struck me since the last time I read it. Does Voldemort not reveal his muggle ancestry to his Death Eaters? I forget what is said to Harry under his breath and what is proclaimed out loud to the DE's but, if nothing else does Voldemort not aknowledge, out loud to his followers, that the grave which they are gathered around is that of his father? Are his followers so dense that they can not figure it out? The DE's are all so bent on wizarding lineage that as soon as Voldemort makes the revelation of his original last name one would think that they would be aware that Riddle is not a pure wizarding family name! I mean Malfoy of all the Death Eaters should be questioning this to himself, shouldn't he?

If they don't figure it out, I will be surprised beacause they should! Even if the rest of the DE's don't put 2 and 2 together at the grave of Voldemorts father, Wormtail knows without a doubt! The fact that wormtail knows this potentially damaging information should be a concern to Voldemort. An arrogant oversight, once again, I feel on the part of the Dark Lord!

Barty Crouch Jr. compares himself to Voldemort because they both murdered their fathers. I am confident that BC Jr. knew of Voldemorts original last name! I think he even is aware that Voldemorts father was a muggle!?

In OOTP Harry tries to use this knowledge against Voldemort by informing Bellatrix of the fact. Her reaction gives me the impression that Voldemort has not, to date, exposed to his followers his ancestry! Bellatrix was not at the graveyard. Maybee she will start to question other death eaters who were there (like wormtail) and do some research into Voldemorts past existence!

I think this Voldemort ancestry seed which Harry has now planted into the mind of Bellatrix, and the fact that wormtail knows it to be true, could become a very damaging component to the loyalty of Voldemort's supporters. Wormtails debt to Harry may not be paid in full yet...

What do you all think???
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
Voldemort tells them that they are in the graveyard because he needed bone from his father who is buried there. Before the DEs arrive, he tells Harry that his Muggle dad lived up on the hill quite near the graveyard, but he never says "Muggle" in front of the DEs.

I think what has become more important for the DEs is that they are completely terrified of him and his power. For the DEs, it does not matter what his ancestry is - they only know he is the one with the power and the Dark magic and so they must follow him. They have seen what happens to wizards who disobey him and it is not pretty. For some, I think they truly don't care about his lineage so long as they can somehow harness some power through him. For others (like Wormtail), they are so scared of him, they don't dare leave his circle or say anything negative about him. For still others, I think they delight in the torture and killing and again, don't care what he is so long as they are given the chance to inflict pain on others.

When Harry tells the DEs that Voldemort is a half-blood, all of them are standing around - it is right after he picks the prophecy up and before the big fight. All of the DEs heard what he said . . . so it is possible that they might not have made the connection before and this could cause some rift in them, but as I said above, I'm not sure it would make a difference at this point. They are too entrenched in his service.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
That is an interesting question!

Lets face it - given the out and out prejudice that the whole Voldemort/DE movement seems to offer - it would shock and horrify them to find out that their leader was indeed a Mudblood!
He would have made his big sell on being the decendant of Salazar - how would they feel to know that last in the great bloodline is in fact polluted!
You are well observed - Bellatrix reaction to Harry was more of 'how dare you even suggest such a thing ..' and as Boingy pointed out - it looks like he didnt metion his roots and reasons to the DE's after his re-birth.
This could be a factor come the later stages as the DE's start to question the person they stood so loyal to - well, almost loyal - most of them wernt, as Voldemort pointed out.
Boingy is right - Voldemort is where he is because of fear - those that stand with and against him all hold that common - that the person at the top is someone to be afraid of.
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
This is a good thought, it was brought up in another thread (off subject) and wasn't really discussed further. Boing, I think, had the most important point. At this point, no matter what the DE's now know of Voldemort's parentage, they may grumble amongst themselves, but they will be too terrified to split ranks with Voldemort. Also, there is the fact that although he is a halfblood, he makes it openly known that he despises his father's blood, and he, although not pureblood, supports the movement towards protecting bloodlines. And looking at just who most DE's are. . . Slytherins. . .they really don't care "who" does it, as long as they get their way in the end. So, yeah, they'll still support him.
 
Sirius Potter Fan said:
Also, there is the fact that although he is a halfblood,

Perhaps the Half Blood Prince?

I do think some of them will care, particularly the ones who went to Azkaban. Something of the mindset, "I endured all those years of hell for you, with your talk of purity, you half blood?!" I would be angry too, if I was in their position.

Some of them, like Wormtail and Macnair really won't care. As long as they are protected and their own agenda is met, it's ok with them.
 

Norbert

Time Turners
What death eaters know this informatoin for sure?

Do we all agree that Wormtail should know full well? Does he have all of information required, but isn't smart enough to arrive at the conclusion?

I felt like Barty Crouch Jr. knew - did anyone else get that impression? If so, how did Voldemort supply this information to BC Jr. and keep his allegance?

After COS, is it not made public knowledge about the diary possessing Ginny Weasley and that Tom Marvolo Riddle (aka Lord Voldemort) nearly came back to life?

Boing - in OOTP, are you sure that Harry spills this tidbit while all the DE's are around at the ministry? If so, now Lucuios Malfoy has heard it... Although, I thought that was a privet conversation between Harry and Bellatrix? Bellatrix has heard it from Harry but, she doesn't believe it...

Dumbledore knows! He calls Voldemort Tom to his face - While Bellatrix is present to watch!

Does Snape have knowledge of this information? Does he believe it?
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
OotP said:
"What kind of prophecy?" repeated Bellatrix, the grin fading from her face. "You jest, Harry Potter."

"Nope, not jesting," said Harry, his eyes flicking from Death Eater to Death Eater, looking for a weak link, a space through which they could escape. "How come Lord Voldemort wants it?"

Several of the Death Eaters let out low hisses.

"You dare speak his name?" whispered Bellatrix.

"Yeah," said Harry, maintaining his tight grip on the glass ball, expecting another attempt to bewitch it from him. "Yeah, I've got no problem saying Vol-"

"Shut your mouth!" Bellatrix shrieked. "You dare speak his name with your unworthy lips, you dare besmirch it with your half-blood's tongue, you dare -"

"Did you know he's a half-blood, too?" said Harry recklessly. Hermione gave a little moan near his ear. "Voldemort? Yeah, his mother was a witch but his dad was a Muggle - or has he been telling you lot he's pureblood?"

"STUPEF-"

"NO!"

A jet of red light had shot from the end of Bellatrix Lestrange's wand, but Malfoy had deflected it.

So, yeah, there were several DEs there - all the ones who were in the battle at the end (and those that were stopped before they got to the veil room) were all there when he said that.

Wormtail definitely knows because of the preparations for Voldemort's rebirth.

As for Barty, Jr., I really don't know at all.

As for Ginny being possessed by a diary left behind by Voldemort? No. I'm fairly certain that information would never have made it past the members of the Order (if all of them even know). The ministry would not want that information getting out as it would get everyone scared again. Their stance has been denial the whole time.

Snape? Yeah, he knows, he believes. :D
 

Norbert

Time Turners
Cool! Thanks Boing...

I wonder if Lucious Malfoy knows/believes? He was the one who delivered the Diary in COS... What were his instructions from Voldie regarding the diary? I would think that somewhere along the line, having been the holder and deliverer of the diary, that the name Tom Riddle had come up before Luciuos...

From the snippet that Boing has provided, it certainly seems as though; while Bellatrix is about to loose her head and become reckless with rage at the information Harry is providing, Lucious keeps a cool head... Almost like this information is not a surprise to him?

Has Luciuos known all along? Has he told his son? Did Voldemort share this information with a select few of his DE's (like Malfoy and BC Jr) that he could trust would beleive his conviction to illiminating muggles and mudbloods even though he was one himself? But not able to trust the majority of them because of loose cannons like Bellatrix Lestrange???
 

Padma Patil

Dumbledore's Girl
Norbert said:
Has Luciuos known all along? Has he told his son? Did Voldemort share this information with a select few of his DE's (like Malfoy and BC Jr) that he could trust would beleive his conviction to illiminating muggles and mudbloods even though he was one himself? But not able to trust the majority of them because of loose cannons like Bellatrix Lestrange???

Well if any of them didn't know that Voldemort was a halfblood, then most of the ones who were there (at the ministry) have a month or until Voldemort breaks them out of Azkaban to think about it all alone in a cell.

If people like Malfoy didn't know however, then I'd say that Voldemort has a rebellion on his hands. ;)
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
The thing about Lucius - he was prolly the most loyal to Voldemort even in his demise.
He still talked about Voldemort with respect - he was still willing to do things in support of Voldemort - he was no doubts behind the Dark Mark exercise in GoF ...
My point being - he is just totally sold with the idea of Voldemort and what he stood for - he actually believes what Voldemort was saying and his loyalty was strong.
Wormtail did it because he had nowhere else to go- lets face it he was dead to everyone - and those that knew different knew he was a traitor and as welcome as a fart in a jacuzzi!
My point being - Lucius it mattered not what Voldemort was - he liked the mans ideals - its like all these people that vote - say republican - just because - no matter who the candidate is ;)

Bellatrix on the other hand - you can almost see from the above that it looks likely that the rest of the DE's have no idea that Voldemort was a mudblood!
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
We now know the other side of Voldemort's ancestry due to our introduction to the Gaunts. The view we got into the other branch of his bloodline was significant in that we found where he got his ability to speak Parseltongue. Alsothe fact that it seemed the Gaunts were one of those old Wizarding families that believed in inbreeding before they would venture mating with a Muggle, which would explain their seemingly insane behavior.

It was probably better for the Wizarding world that Voldemort didn't know his mother and family as he grew. I can't imagine how much more evil he would have become had he grown up around Morfin and Marvolo. They would not have been the type of wizards to not allow Tom to practice his magic simply because he was underage.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I suppose getting back to the original point on this one ... are the DE's aware that Voldemort is in fact one of the things they most despise?
I mean, even the Half Blood Prince wasn't of pure blood - but yet shares a position in the DE market that many other loyal DE's would kill for - very close to Voldemort.
I think it is interesting how many instances we have seen of blatant hypocrisy from Voldemort/HBP when it comes to distinction between pure bloods and mudbloods/half bloods.

I really do wonder if the DE's would have been as loyal and allowed Voldemort to get where he is if they knew he wasn't pureblood?
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
I think one thing that keeps coming into my mind is that the DE's that aren't pure blood, hate and dispise their muggle heritage. but you still have to wonder that their heritage is also unknown as well as Voldemort's. I think Voldemort took the stand as the heir of Slytherin that Wizards and muggles should not interbreed. Basicaly just pure racism. I think that in that the DE's that joined him assumed he himself was pure blood because of this stance, and never questioned or asked of his heritage. . . but somehow, I don't think Voldemort ever tried to "hide" his heritage. I'm shure that most of the early DE's knew he had been raised in a muggle orphanage, and as such, could not have been pure blood, but just agreed with his hatred of muggles interbreeding with wizards. After Harry informed Belatrix, she seemed disbelieving, but it may have just been her assumption, and I don't think it has changed her allegience to him.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Well - looking at the case in hand - many of the DE's we are told about are Pure Blooded ..
I think this is getting more and more legit - think about it ... Bella was really horrified when Harry suggested that Voldemort wasn't pure ... we also saw Bella's loyalty swaying slightly as Snape taunted her in Spinner's End ...
I think there is a real chance that Voldemort is keeping the people under him - the servants to himself - under the assumption he is the last Heir of Slytherin - and that as such he is really pureblood.
I mean look at Lucious - he also despises Muggles and half-bloods - you can tell that from his son - how would his pride feel knowing he is servant to something he despises!
I think there is a case for mutiny in the DE's ranks ... and the Bosses failure to tell them he was half blood might be his undoing with his followers ...
 
Just a quick clarification:

Alz said..........

"The thing about Lucius - he was prolly the most loyal to Voldemort even in his demise. He still talked about Voldemort with respect - he was still willing to do things in support of Voldemort - he was no doubts behind the Dark Mark exercise in GoF"

BC Jr. was the one to set the dark mark off at the campsite, to make the DE's that abandoned the dark lord quake with fear. He was under an invisibilty cloak, in the woods, using Harry's wand.

and, to address to subject of this thread.. I think Voldemort's ommission of the fact that he himself is a mudblood will play a major part in the final book. It would be like Hitler failing to mention to his Jew killing Nazi regime that he was Jewish.. "kill kill kill, oh by the way, I'm one of them".. Probably not going to go over very well once it gets out. I'm not sure if the combined DE powers can do much against big V, but I'm guessing we'll see some defectors with critical information.. I forsee Lucious Malfoy being on Harry's side by the end of the next book. Unbelievable? Maybe, but bookmark this thread so you can remember who said it when it comes to pass..
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah actually you are very correct - I commited a slight faux paux - what I was trying to say was that I thought Lucius was behind the little DE party - you are right it was Crouch Junior that set off the Dark Mark ... thanks for the correction.

Your closing comments were also bang on - I think Voldemort only has the respect he does because of his visions and prejudices - if the DE's find out their leader is the very thing he serves to destroy - might make them question their loyalties!
 
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