Who Changed the Portkey?

Weasleyfanforever

Time Turners
When Harry and Cedric were transported to the graveyard via the Triwizard Cup Portkey... Harry also used it to return to Hogwarts...

Who set the Portkey to return ??

How did the wands shadows know it would take Harry back ??

Could it been one of the Death Eaters there, that is actually a double agent working for the Order? (i.e. Snape?)
 

Kingsley

Time Turners
I always assumed it was the ghosts or Snape but i gave it some more thought--
remember in book 1 when Ollivander said Lily was good at charms--well in theory she could become good enough to not need a wand right?
it is possible she did some kind of reverse spell on the portkey
Just an idea i had--in case there is anyone with an anti Snape complex :rolleyes:
as far as the other ghosts--james is too obvious
 

PrettyMS.Potter

Time Turners
Wow! I have to say Snape. :eek: I know, but a it could have been Lily. I will stay with the double agent thing. Snape must of done something with the portkey with Harry and Vold were going at it. Especially when the encantaion happened between the two wands.
 

The Laughing Imp

Time Turners
Weasleyfanforever said:
When Harry and Cedric were transported to the graveyard via the Triwizard Cup Portkey... Harry also used it to return to Hogwarts...

Who set the Portkey to return ??

How did the wands shadows know it would take Harry back ??

Could it been one of the Death Eaters there, that is actually a double agent working for the Order? (i.e. Snape?)

This is a good question. :)

I'm going to guess that a) portkeys can be one way or two way and that the cup was a two way portkey that simply brought Harry back. If portkeys always return to their point of origin, then the adult shadows would have known this. Or b) Crouch/Moody charmed the cup to be a two way portkey so that once Voldemort had his fun with Harry he could send Harry's corpse back as a highly dramatic mystery. Voldemort likes to use fear as a form of terror that aids his purposes. Remember, he didn't want anybody to know he was back. So Harry showing up dead would have upset the wizarding world, but the mystery of the death of the "Boy Who Lived" would have struck fear into their hearts, thus serving Voldemort's purposes.

The Order was reassembled only because Harry came back with news that Voldemort was alive. Besides, if the Order had been aware of Voldemort's plan to kill Harry, Dumbledore would never have allowed Harry to touch the cup. In fact, the moment it was charmed the whole Order would have grabbed ahold of it to give Voldemort a charming little home coming party.

So although your question is a good one, I don't believe there was any skullduggery involved on the part of the Order. I fear that a more mundane explanation might satisfy the question.

I keep shooting down comments you make. You're going to start hating me soon. LOL I hope you won't take it personally. I really enjoy the mental jolt some of these questions are giving me.

BTW, I did some research on portkeys over at the Harry Potter Lexicon and found the following:
Portkey said:
Portkey (GF6, GF10, GF32, GF34, OP7, OP36)
A Portkey is an enchanted object, often a piece of supposedly worthless junk, which when touched will transport a person to a preprogrammed location. An object can be transformed into a Portkey by the Portus spell, but the caster must be authorized to do so. The Portkey Office is part of the Department of Magical Transport at the Ministry of Magic.

Nowhere in this description or in the description of the Portus spell is the portkey defined as a one way or two way portal. So there is still a mystery here, but perhaps only one of ignorance to the inner workings of Jo's wonderful world.
 

Kingsley

Time Turners
If it was two way--why wouldnt they just touch it again before Cedric got killed--instead Cedric had the idea of them getting out their wands prepared for the unknown
 

Tinkerbell

Time Turners
Good point Kingsley! However, did they not move forward, away from the Cup, thinking that perhaps this was still part of the Tournament, so did not immediately think to return?

I think that the Cup was a "return ticket" as it were, and that Crouch/Moody had made it that way, perhaps not just to send Harry's body back, but perhaps for Voldemort to return to Hogwarts and reek havoc!
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I think you will find that Portkeys are a one way deal - in GoF and the World Cup after people appeared after using a portkey, they were thrown into a box to be reused - and gives the impression it is a one way deal, I am sure this is re-iterated in OoTP somewhere but dont ask me to find the reference ...
All portkeys we have seen used so far are single use and support the quasi fact they are a one way deal!
And also agreed with Kingsley point - if this one was charmed for a return, I am sure Harry would have picked it up ... if indeed it is know some portkey are used for a return journey!
So sorry Imp, you might have to expand your mind on this one;)

For me, said it before and say it again, it is most likely to be a Death Eater and of that, my Fav, One Severus Snape:)
Everyone was distracted by the event of Harry & Voldemort fighting, this was perfect for a DE to go 'portus' up the cup again:)
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
I have to wonder, if it *was* Snape, how did James know it would return Harry to Hogwarts?

He says to Harry, "you must get to the Portkey, it will return you to Hogwarts." So, I see it as either he knew that Portkeys can be two-way - perhaps in case you forget something and need to get back, or that Lily (I like this idea by the way) charmed it somehow.

But, how would Lily know what object to charm? Would she have had time to charm it? She would have needed to look around, find the object, charm it. And then, how did James know it was "the Portkey?" If Lily could just charm any object, she would have done something a lot closer . . .

Do you think that the ghosts in Voldemort's wand could somehow talk to each other? Like Cedric died and then he told Harry's parents what happened so they knew how he and Harry had gotten to where they were and Lily would then know which object to charm?

Good questions, everyone.
 

Weasleyfanforever

Time Turners
Dumbledore said that the things that came out of Voldemort's wand had been shadows of thepeople they were, so I am not entirely sure that any of them would have been able to charm the object. I think that perhaps either James or Lily saw the person that changed the portkey do it, so they knew that it was going to take Harry back to Hogwarts. I personally think it was Snape that changed it, but I am assuming that Lily or James would have said that it was Snape that changed it back, if they were able to see his face, but they wouldn't have been able to, as all of the Death Eaters wear masks...
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Wheezy is indeed correct, they were 'shadows' of the victims, not the ghosts or other entities ...
As far as sanctioned beings - I don't think they were more than a result of clever magic - powerful but clever but not much else ...
I really think looking at where we have seen port keys mentioned, they are one way deals - as in you use them and then discard before you place Portus back on them to activate another trip ...

The cup seems to have had Portus performed on it by someone who was full in body - and assumption high I would say that the shadows saw who it was and knew they were trying to help - and the natural assumption that wherever the cup was being pointed towards, it would have been safety ... in the situation Harry was in it isn't likely the person that did it was looking to place Harry into anymore trouble, like hello where else could Harry have gone and been in more danger!
 
K

Kreacher

Guest
Wormtail/Peter Pettigrew owes Harry.

Harry did not allow Sirius and Lupin to kill Pettigrew. I believe it was then mentioned later that they were connected because of this act, and now Peter is destined to repay Harry by saving his life.

So, Petter Pettigrew arranged the port key for Harry to return to Hogwats, thus having saved his life.

Just a guess....

Kreacher ;)
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I am seeing your logic on that one but feel that life debt hasnt been paid yet and if Pettigrew had done that it was akin to saving Harry's life and as such the debt is paid ...
I also think he wouldn't have the intelligence or bravery to slip away during the fight to do it ...
Still all the same it should be considered but I just feel that life debt will be paid later on ..
 

Weasleyfanforever

Time Turners
OK, I wasn't sure where to put this as I couldn't really find an appropriate place, but this discussion is very close to my idea. Many of us have been wondering if Snape was in fact at the Grave Yard the nigt that Voldemort was returned to his body, and how he got there. Well, I think we have been majorly overlooking something that woul be quite easy, and is allowed inside the grounds of Hogwarts. Think, How did Harry and Cedric get to the Grave Yard? A Port Key! Snape could have hid in the bushes, grabbed anything, changed it to a Port Key, and travelled that way! I can't believe that I never thought of this before, it just hit me that this would be the easiest, fastest way for him to get there...
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Yah, that works as well! :D
In fact - looking at that anybody could have slipped into the party and changed the portkey to return - cast a little portus on the cup and then apparate away - the events that were unfolding would mean the focus of the crowd was away from anything other than Harry and Voldemort ...
Personally, I am really torn - I still feel Snape was there when he was called like a good DE ... but I also like him as most faithful servant at Hogwarts ... the dilemma!
But portkey idea is good Wheezy!
 

Weasleyfanforever

Time Turners
I am really thinking that only Barty Crouch Jr. could have been the "Most Faithful" at Hogwarts.

GoF said:
"The Dark Lord didn't manage to kill you. Potter, and he so wanted to," whispered Moody. "Imagine how he will reward me when he finds I have done it for him. I gave you to him - the thing he needed above all to regenerate - and then I killed you for him. I will be honored beyond all other Death Eaters. I will be his dearest, his closest supporter . . . closer than a son. ..."

Crouch Jr. really sees himself as the most faithful, and if he would have thought at all that there was a chance that he would die during any of the time that he was at Hogwarts, I don't think he would have spoke like this. He is a very smart, cunning man, and I think that if he sensed that this was a suicide mission, he would have still done it proudly, but he would not have spoken this way....

I am still really liking the portkey idea, but it almost seems too easy. Grab a branch, "Portus" go to the Circle, change the other portkey whilst no one is looking, then go back to the school. I don't know, it may be too easy, but I still like it :D
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Once again, it is a good counter - I like it ... but the arrogance in him, his pride in what he was doing would have made him speak like that - he might have been just living in a dream state - perhaps he realy did believe it ...
In fact it would be consistant ... I think Voldemort would ahve given him all that spiel just to make him feel really rewarded - but I think deep down Voldemort knew he wouldnt be coming back ... you dont screw with Dumbledore under his nose and walk away ... unless you are Snape :)
Just trying to offer a few other thoughts and counters ... as I said I am really torn on the whole thing about the changed portkey and who was back at hogwarts .... Crouch looked like the one JKR was eluding to - but check out her World Book day chat comments - you will see it isnt a straight black and white - she mentions a few places have got it right - that means if it was straight forward, she woudl have answered so - or just wouldnt be a question because we all assumed what she wrote to be true ...
 

MissWhizbee

Time Turners
Well, I think we all know that I'm a big supporter of the Evil Snape theory. hehe :D So, with that in mind I think that Voldemort knew full well that Crouch Jr wouldn't be coming back to him. I also think it is very plausible that although Crouch Jr was very clever he probably wasn't all there mentally. He was in Azkaban for a long while and then under the imperius curse for years. I don't think you come away from that unscathed and so his expectations of how things were going to end where probably far different than what would reasonably be expected to happen.

Also, the quote "I will be his dearest, his closest supporter . . . closer than a son. ..." suggests that he himself knows that he currently is not the dearest, closest supporter of the dark lord. So, I wonder who is ;) .

As for the port key. I have been fond of the theory of the returning port key having been set up by Crouch Jr. for a while. I think that it is plausible that port keys can go both ways. We have always seen them in circumstances where they have not needed to go both ways in a close proximitiy of time, but if Voldemort was planning on sending Harry's body back to Hogwarts or perhaps going to hogwarts himself with his DEs after he had killed Harry to reak havoc on the unsuspecting school and perhaps be able to catch dumbledore off guard and kill him and any of the other higher ups in the ministry who were present, then a returning port key might make sense. Especially if you run a risk of being detected every time you do the portus charm. Since you are supposed to have permission to do the charm wouldn't there be a way to tell if people were doing it when they weren't supposed to (sort of like underage wizardry). So instead of doing the charm twice and risk being detected twice, they could have just done it once and made it a 2way port key. We aren't told anywhere that port keys don't go both ways, so I don't see a problem with it.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Your second point I have issues on - as I said previously all the JKR writings talk of a port key being a one way trip - I have never seen a two way portkey (cue CTS to prove me wrong :D ) ...

I like the rational behind that first point - Crouch Jnr wasnt all there and I think that allowed Voldemort moreso to send him on this one way trip - on the basis he was never going to return - clearing the way for an implication on who the most loyal is ... and as I said above - if the answer was so obvious - why did JKR provide the answer she did when asked?
 

Kingsley

Time Turners
So are you back to believing it was Snape?
I have always thought maybe the ghost could have said a charm or incantation
Snaoe would have had to pretend he wasnt there when DD sent him on the mission at the end
I think the spirits are the only real option
Of course Snape could have done it but he wouldnt have been able to disapparate :confused:
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
On the subject of Portkeys - I agree that they are one way now that I have seen the other posts. Especially the one about the World Cup - if they were set to go back, the guy who grabbed them would have been sent back to the hill.

Also, think about the Muggle-proofing. I think Portkeys only go one way so that when the object is discarded, it does not retain its abilities or that could create some real problems with people randomly picking them up and then disappearing!

I think someone must have helped in the sense of changing it back to Hogwarts, but again, I have no idea who it could be! I'm sure we'll find out . . .
 
Top