Who Changed the Portkey?

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Well, just for a little diversification on this - what if it was him?
I often wonder if Harry finds out the way Voldemort did his steps long ago - and perhaps took a few himself?
I know it is a little out there - but was a touch convienient that the portkey was reset back to safety and not sure the shadows could have messed with it - look at Voldemort when he lost his body ... it required someone with physical form and a wand ...
 

Clarice

Time Turners
Tough one... I agree that portkeys are one way trips - as we are told this in the book, so it has to be someone in the graveyard. I dont think it would be Pettigrew - too small a task for repayment of having his life spared by H. He is a scared man, and I feel he will pass a warning to H rather than physically assist when his life is in danger - surely a life for a life would have meant Pettegrew helping H at an earlier stage in the graveyard.
Snape - I really cant decide if he is good / bed. I tend to feel he is more good, and I dont think he would have gone to the graveyard (even if he is a double agent), if he is a good wizard now, he would remain at Hogwarts for protection of his life - going to meet volde would surely be the beginning of his end - and we know he was a bit of a sad kid at school. If he is still a DE, surely there would be more disruption / murders etc at Hogwarts. So no, I dont think it was him.
If anyone was aware that the cup became a portkey at the ttrwizard event, they couldnt have followed it to the graveyard could they??? They wouldnt have known where it was going (unless they arranged for it with Barty jnr).
It has to be someone at the graveyard that night, who - I dont know.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I think if Pettigrew wanted to save Harry's life he would have ensured that Harry was never there ... he knew that Voldemort wanted to use him - as per first chapter of GoF - and he did try to get Voldemort to use someone else ... but also Voldemort was still weak and reliant on Pettigrew - so ultimatly he could have stopped him if he wanted to.

Voldemort called back all his DE's - and then makes the famous speech - I am actually torn if Snape was there or not - I always assumed he was but now question that recently based on a few people's comments ...
I still feel he stood the best chance and also had the motivation to try and help Harry - and we know he is a spy so could have been there ... could have!

So - who else?
Well I dont think JKR would pull a suprise DE to be on the other side - the only well known one would have been Malfoy ... and just dont think he would - he really hated Potter after what happened in CoS ...
Interesting - I really hope JKR addresses this one at some point!
 

Weasleyfanforever

Time Turners
Blaise said:
I think if Pettigrew wanted to save Harry's life he would have ensured that Harry was never there ... he knew that Voldemort wanted to use him - as per first chapter of GoF - and he did try to get Voldemort to use someone else ... but also Voldemort was still weak and reliant on Pettigrew - so ultimatly he could have stopped him if he wanted to.

I have to agree with Blaise here. Peter could have stopped Voldemort from getting his body back all together, and he didn't do that, so I just can't see him changing the portkey back. I don't think he has the nerve to help Harry right in front of Voldemort, right after he has gotten his body back.

I really, really want the person that changed the Port Key back to be Snape. I think it is a good possibility that he did. I think if he had not been at the Circle that night, it would have meant that he couldn't return as a DE, and we are 99% sure that he is still a DE spy, or double spy, what have you. This is really out there, but what if Snape can make himself invisible, like Dumbledore can, without a cloak. It would have been easy for him to make himself invisible in the pandemonium, change back the Port Key, and either become visible again, or go back to Hogwarts with Harry, and Harry not even knowing he was there...
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Ummm - not sure that is a little out there :p
I dont think Snape would have resisted the temptation to be invisible in the books so far ... he really would have used it as well - especially when tracking Potter!

Are we right do you think to discount the likes of Malfoy from this puzzle?
I know he seems to really hate and loath Harry - but who better to do a mega twist ...

My other fav here is the man with magic no-one really understands - Dumbledore ... but some how that would be wild speculation ... :eek:
 

Weasleyfanforever

Time Turners
I have heard theories that Malfoy is really a good guy, and that he is in the best position to undermine Voldemort, but one would think that if he were a good guy, he wouldn't have given the diary to Ginny in CoS. He would have been able to stop an attempt at LV rising again, and he didn't...

I think Dumbledore being the one that changed the portkey wouldn't be so far off. We know that he has the ability to make himself invisible without the use of a invisibility cloak, and we assume that he has done it before without Harry noticing that he was there (while looking at the Mirror of Erised.) Also, who was nearest, and I Am assuming first to Harry when he arrives back from the Graveyard? :

GoF said:
Then a pair of hands seized him roughly and turned him over.
"Harry! Harry!”
He opened his eyes.
He was looking up at the starry sky, and Albus Dumbledore was crouched over him. The dark shadows of a crowd of people pressed in around them, pushing nearer; Harry felt the ground beneath his head reverberating with their footsteps.

Harry feels someone grab him and flip him over, then he opens his eyes to see Dumbledore. It would have been very easy for Dumbledore to become visible again, and shake Harry awake. Perhaps the glint in Dumbledore's eyes later in the book is from his remembering the scene. He looks at Harry's arm, because he was not close enough to see where they actually took the blood from, and he almost instantly knows what Harry is talking about when he explains Priori Incantatem.

My view on this would be that Dumbledore was invisible inside the maze, making sure no one was badly injured, watching over the events. He was poised by the Cup in case someone cheated if there was a close call, and he when Cedric and Harry grabbed the Cup, he did as well. It might have been his intention to reveal himself, but then the Cup was found to be a port key. I think this could be why Dumbledore believes Harry's story. Dumbledore is not stupid, it could have been because he was there....
 

kausarqadir

Time Turners
Weasleyfanforever said:
My view on this would be that Dumbledore was invisible inside the maze, making sure no one was badly injured, watching over the events. He was poised by the Cup in case someone cheated if there was a close call, and he when Cedric and Harry grabbed the Cup, he did as well. It might have been his intention to reveal himself, but then the Cup was found to be a port key. I think this could be why Dumbledore believes Harry's story. Dumbledore is not stupid, it could have been because he was there....


i dont agree with you WFF on this topic. because that must have been such an auspicious occassion for the school and hosting school's headmaster is missing!! obviously everyone can see that. and dumbledore is not a personality not to be missed easily.
secondly, my first thoughts were for the ghost/ shadows of harry's parents. but snape is also a good one. no i wont vote for peter, because if he wanted to pay the debt, he would have shown it to potter.
another thing, i just felt, that its good to discuss here.
in Gof they said, they have to be careful with the materials used as portkeys, so that muggles wouldnt go picking them up.
and also, arthur said, that portkeys are objects used to transport wizards from one place to another at a prearranged time.
if that's so, then y do they have to be careful with the materials where muggles are concerned.
also, then for the cup. if its already Pre arranged time, then how did moody know at what time harry is going to touch it.
because i also remember, amos diggory picked up the portkey and said, yes i have got it. now everyone should come closer and touch it. one finger will do....
this means that at that particular minute...... prearranged.
then what abt the cup in the labyrinth and in the graveyard too.....
 

Kingsley

Time Turners
wow--but ok
1st I think the trophy/portkey was for a prearranged period--the graveyard escape--that was changed in advance or it was always for a return trip--if it was changed in front of the ghosts--that is how they saw it--but if it was always setuo for a return trip--the ghosts would have to be all knowing--or Bertha heard the info before her death
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Once again we have to refer to past - and a porkey being done after a trip ...
We saw them being discarded after use at the World Cup - as such I think unless someone used Portus on the cup again - it wasnt going anywhere ...
We can only judge on the past instances and I dont think to my knowledge we have seen a two way portkey - we have seen them discarded after one use.
 

Boing

Pops in randomly
Interesting point about the prearranged time. Perhaps there are different spells to use - one that simply makes the Portkey a portkey for the first person to touch it and one that is for a specified time. It makes sense that there might be different ways of using the Portkeys.

Of course, this still doesn't tell us who changed it back . . . I wonder if we will ever find out because we haven't heard anything in OotP and that makes me worried that we never will. Also, Voldemort hasn't seemed to be angry about that or seek retribution for it, so perhaps he wasn't that surprised that it was a Portkey again (or perhaps this is evidence that they can go two ways - but then why would Moody make it a two-way Portkey?) Was Voldemort planning on using it to go back to Hogwarts and make a scene?
 

kashlie

afraid of my own shadow
I personally think that the prearranged times were for a highly organised event where there were going to be many many people arriving. This portkey, however, was only needed to transport one person, whenever they touched it. As we know, 'Moody' was helping Harry throughout the tournament to make sure he touched it. He admitted to turning the cup into a portkey, but really doesn't specify when. He could have been watching with his magical eye, yet powerless to stop Cedric going too.

As for Wormtail changing it back to a portkey...that isn't exactly saving Harry's life. It is prolonging it. Wormtail could change himself into a rat without words, he could most likely activate a portkey. Considering he went to where Cedric's body lay to retrieve Harry's wand...
And Snape, well, we don't know for sure that he was there. Just looking at that passage where the DE is addressed, Voldemort says he has one too cowardly to return (I am guessing Karkaroff) and 'one who I believe has left me for ever...he will be killed...' Could he mean Snape? Because that means he could not have changed the portkey.
 

Kingsley

Time Turners
There are a few threads set aside for the identities of the mssing death eaters, but for those of us who beleive Snape was there--believe he changed the portkey--someone did--unless we can start speculatin about spirits being powerful enough for magic--Nick and Peeves never did any spells right

Ok I know-Voldemort changed it back to give Harry a sportin chance :D
 

kashlie

afraid of my own shadow
I have been reading...
To activate a portkey, the spell is simply 'portus' (Dumbledore's office, OotP)
There was no time specified on this portkey either.
Going by this passage, someone would have to be close to the object, but not necessarily touch it, to activate the portkey.
As none of the DE except Wormtail actually went near the cup, I have to say it was him that did it. BUT BUT BUT here is the hard part...The portkey DD activates trembles and glows with an odd blue light. So I ask, why did nobody notice this happening to the cup if someone did change it once they were there?

I could, of course, go and read through the battle again and see if there is something mentioned...which I will. Then I will come back and give an aye or nay. Meanwhile, continue discussing!!
 

kashlie

afraid of my own shadow
After re-reading it, there is no sign of the portkey being reactivated. Between Wormtail fetching the wand and Harry touching the cup, nothing!

I did note however that yes, the shadows seemed to know it would work, and Harry himself seemed surprised that it worked - he felt the jerk behind his navel which meant the portkey had worked - like he had almost doubted it would.

Wormtail could have done it with Harry's own wand.
None of the other DE would have paid attention to him, because they see him as a frightened little rat (yes, I mad that pun on purpose) who would only do as he is told. None of them know he is in debt to Harry.
 

kaz

Professor of Potterology
I don't think it was Snape. Wasn't he still there when Harry got back- as far as I can tell, he only left when Dumbledore asked him to go.
I dont think it was Dumbledore- I can't imagine Dumbledore staying invisible and letting Voldemort take his blood and putting him through so much.
I agree that Peter wouldn't have had the guts to reset the port key under Voldemorts and the DE noses- he has yet to redeem himself with the DE's and to frightened to defy V just yet.

I don't think there is too much to it, I think we are to assume that it was a 2 way port key. But then, maybe that's what JK wants us to think :rolleyes:
 

Kingsley

Time Turners
The 2 way portkey is out of the question though---just because it hasnt happened before and portkeys arent setup that way

Snape was there after we noticed that Dumbledore was grabbing Harry and his eyes were focusing on DD

Plenty of time for Snape to do some damage

My most faithful servant at Hogwarts--could have meant Snape :rolleyes:
 

kashlie

afraid of my own shadow
Voldemort's most faithful servant at Hogwarts was unfortunately Bartemius Crouch Jr. He was the one who helped get Harry to the cemetery. Unless of course you are suggesting that Snape was also helping to get Harry to Voldemort and is even more faithful to him than Crouch was?
 

kausarqadir

Time Turners
kaz said:
I dont think it was Dumbledore- I can't imagine Dumbledore staying invisible and letting Voldemort take his blood and putting him through so much.

if i am not mistaken i remember that when harry told dd what happened in graveyard, esp. when he told about taking blood etc. dd smiled as winning something worth....this could mean that now relationship between volde and HP is even stronger(as enemies) just like pettigrew in debt of HP makes a relationship , a magical bond between both.

kaz said:
I agree that Peter wouldn't have had the guts to reset the port key under Voldemorts and the DE noses- he has yet to redeem himself with the DE's and to frightened to defy V just yet.:
yes, he is really a coward, but changing him into rat and changing portkey and coming back could be done easily. may be ghosts/shadows have made him do this.... i still wont go for paying debt, otherwise he would have shown it to at least HP.

kaz said:
I don't think there is too much to it, I think we are to assume that it was a 2 way port key. But then, maybe that's what JK wants us to think :rolleyes:

i think there CAN be a two way port key. and the reason is what i have already discussed previously.
kausarqadir said:
in Gof they said, they have to be careful with the materials used as portkeys, so that muggles wouldnt go picking them up.
and also, arthur said, that portkeys are objects used to transport wizards from one place to another at a prearranged time.
if that's so, then y do they have to be careful with the materials where muggles are concerned. because i also remember, amos diggory picked up the portkey and said, yes i have got it. now everyone should come closer and touch it. one finger will do....
this means that at that particular minute...... prearranged.

otherwise why worrying about muggles picking them....
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
If anyone can point out to me a part of the books that indicates a two way portkey then I would love to see it - i can point out the supporting evidence that suggest they are a one way travel medium - look no further than them being discarded once they arrived at the Quidditch World Cup - they werent placed into a storage area to be used for returning the people.
Then we say the 'portus' charm being performed - this all indicates to me a one way deal.
This also still means - if the assumption is correct - that someone present that night re-performed the charm on the device .... could a spirit be capable of this?
If not - we look to whoever was there - or indeed there and not known to be :)
 

kashlie

afraid of my own shadow
I have to agree with Blaise. We are led to believe that the portkeys are a one way thing. BUT that doesn't mean they aren't two way, it just means there has been no need for it as yet.
For example, at the Quidditch Cup, safely storing active portkeys would be impossible, as would even knowing when they would be needed for the return trip. The portkey that took them to the hospital, again, was only one way because the return trip wasn't needed. It is still possible that it will be a revelation in HPB that they can be made two way.
However, I do still have a problem with WHY Moody/Crouch would have made that particular portkey two way. Voldemort would not have been in any condition to use it so soon, nor was he ready to take over Hogwarts, especially with so many wizards around! His plan was to kill Harry, and make a quiet return to power.
So, even though it is still possible for portkeys to be a two way travel device, it isn't logical for it to be so in GoF.

A two way portkey seems so trivial, but it could be important in HPB, hence JKR getting the possibility out there, but not elaborating as yet.
 
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