Why did Snape kill Dumbledore?

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
We have all kinds of threads about Snape and what spell he used, is he good or evil and ideas that Dumbledore sacrificed himself for some unknown to us reason etc.etc.etc.

I want to hear everyone's ideas why did Snape kill Dumbledore. Death is a very radical step to take simply to control the outcome of a certain event.

Why did Snape kill Dumbledore? Be as broad as you like with your answer please! :D
 

SnarkologyMajor

Time Turners
What a brilliant question:cool:! Seemingly innocent, yet controversial at the same time:D . Well this could cause an uproar, but I don't think Snape killed Dumbledore! Hang on! Let me explain my reasoning (I could be very wrong). My feeling here was that Dumbledore was begging (since when does he beg?) Snape with his very last breath and that by the time Snape used Avada Kedavra Dumbledore was already gone. To me this explains the strange circumstances of the curse itself, there was only Dumbedore's shell left, his soul had already departed. If Dumbledore trusted Snape (which we are told over and over) wouldn't he have expected Snape to try and save him? Yet he didn't give Snape the opportunity to do anything. Even with far too many events conspiring against Dumbledore that night, and even if Snape and Dumbledore had some sort of plan, I still contend that Dumbledore would not want Snape to have his murder on his hands.This flies in the face of everything he stood for! Ultimately, they were both protecting Harry, and I certainly think Snape was aware that Harry was lying a few feet away(Legilimency/Occlumency). Of course this idea is going to irritate Snape haters, and obviously I have concluded that he is one of the good guys(I'll have to look for that thread to explain) and also those who believe Dumbledore faked his own death. I don't believe that Dumbledore needs to be alive in order for Harry to finish what he has to do. :(
 

dribrats

Time Turners
SnarkologyMajor,
Again I totally agree with you, I have been reading your ideas and theories!
You and I seem to be on the same length.

Your Quote - Ultimately, they were both protecting Harry, and I certainly think Snape was aware that Harry was lying a few feet away(Legilimency/Occlumency). Unquote.

First of all, yes throughout the whole series, there are hints (clues) that HP was in fact aware of the fact the Snape 'seemed' to be reading his mind, 'knew' what he was thinking, etc... and could actually 'know' or 'see' beyond the invisilbilty cloak (as could moody). Yes! Snape knew HP was there and thru Legilemency, he and DD communicated - Severus, your vow! - you know what you must and have to do!

Second of all, I believe there is a connection with the fact that they were both protecting Harry, because of a pact (Vow) that they had committed to years ago. When Snape had realized that he had participated in the death of Lily Potter by giving LV the first part of the prophecy, he went to DD professing his regret and 'vowed' to DD to forever be on the right side. DD, wanting to believe Snape, but leery of his intentions, required an Unbreakable Vow (?). Snape agreed...to always be a member of the Order and to be Harry's protector, no matter his personal feelings (hatred of James). Over and over, everyone has questioned the fact that DD 'trusted' Snape implicitly...
There are numerous instances where one could quote Snape's alligiance to the order and his 'watching out' for HP - protecting him not only for the purpose of fullfilling a vow to DD and ridding the magical world of the evil LV, but also for trying to right a wrong - keeping HP alive - the wish of someone that Snape once loved - Lily Potter.
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
Well, we all seem to be of one mind. . .but here's another log to add to the roaring fire.

Snape indeed was superior when it came to potions. Could the whole cave incident have been a setup. Say, Snape knew just when Draco would be instigating his little plan, (and why should'nt an acomplished legilimens like him know that) say that it was planned all along, to play out just as it had. the potion in the basin was put there by Snape with the fake locket (that DD had already found and realized was a fake since he found the real one at Sirius' house when the order had to vacate) this potion was designed to "imitate" death. as Snape arrived DD was fully under the influence, all Snape had to do was say AK while thinking another spell that he fired at DD. Simple right!

Only. . . much as I like that scenario. . . even if all above were really true, wouldn't the fall from the astronomy tower have killed him?

Now, honestly, I can't say if DD may or may not have been dead already when the AK was fired by Snape. I think I hope, more than know, that somehow Snape wasn't forced to actualy Kill DD, but my gut just seems to say Snape did. I do believe though that if he indeed did. it was on DD's orders, not Voldemort's. I believe that Snape is true to the Order. I agree that Snape's loyalty was based on Lily, I think they had some type of relationship. Can't help puting together the fact that Sluggy kept telling Harry how he was like his mother in potions, when it was Snapes book that he used. . .and Snape and Lily were in school together. . .

sorry, wandered off topic a bit:eek: So why did he do it? Because DD told him to.
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Whenever I think about what happened on top of the tower and what Snape said to Harry afterward, I tend to think that Dumbledore did sacrifice himself for some reason that I can't quite grasp, in order to help Harry. That is until I remember what JKR said that we shouldn't think that Snape is too nice a guy - which throws all of my opinions on the ending right off the tower, so to speak! :)

It seemed that what happened could have been prearranged between the two of them, but how would Dumbledore know that the potion in the stand would do to him what it did, and how would he have gotten that information to Snape if he didn't know before he went to the cave? I think about Snape and potions and wonder if Snape didn't make that potion for Voldemort when he was still loyal to him and Snape was the one who told Dumbledore of its properties and what would happen when he drank it. Dumbledore knew he had to drink it, he couldn't pour it on the ground in order to empty the basin and he knew the potion would kill him simply by what he said to Harry, that he, Dumbledore, wasn't as important as Harry. He had to know that the only way you could get to the bottom of the basin was to drink the potion and that who ever did drink it would eventually die.

When Dumbledore told Harry what happened to his hand, Dumbledore said it was a small price to pay for one-seventh of Voldemort's soul, but if all that I said above is true and Dumbledore knew he would die by drinking the potion, then he died for nothing, and it makes me wonder if Snape didn't possibly know that what was at the bottom of the basin wasn't what Dumbledore was looking for, and it goes back to JKR's words about Snape's character.

All that said, if thoughts passed between Snape and Dumbledore before the curse, I'd say Dumbledore, who couldn't even stand up, was begging Snape to take him out. He was obviously suffering and I would think that if Snape was on Dumbledore's side and still spying on Voldemort, it might have been prearranged that Snape should kill Dumbledore if the need should arise, and if Snape was on Dumbledore's side, I'm sure he knew where Dumbledore and Harry had gone and what condition Dumbledore would be in when he returned.

As for Snape attacking Flitwick; I think he wanted him out of the way so he wouldn't be harmed. Maybe, if he'd had the chance he would have stunned everyone he could in order to keep them safe, but that makes me wonder if he stunned Flitwick to protect him, why did he let Hermione and Luna walk away. It would seem that he would have wanted to protect them too, so that thought doesn't really fly either.

As for SPF's comment that Dumbledore wouldn't ask Snape to kill, I don't think Snape being at Hogwarts was like him being in rehab or anything. He was there to make amends for something we still don't know about - and if he did kill Dumbledore as he requested, I think he felt guilty about it afterwards just by what he said to Harry on the lawn when Harry called him a coward. JKR tried to show Snape's pain at what he'd done, possibly, his firing of the fatal curse was the hardest thing he had ever done, (we don't know that Snape ever personally killed anyone while in Voldemort's service, maybe Dumbledore was his first?) - this taken along with his words to Harry: "DON'T CALL ME A COWARD!" Maybe it was the bravest thing he ever had to do and his perpetual anger toward Harry because of James, could not override his obligation to Dumbledore. Maybe there was enough good in Snape that he could get just far enough past his old feelings of hate toward James that he was actually helping Harry with his words - Keep your mouth shut and mind closed!

As you can tell, I'm still on the fence on this - I have no set in stone view on this and find there is not enough evidence either way for me to make up my mind. JKR left too many dead ends and unanswered questions, as she always does. I could lean more toward Snape killing Dumbledore out of necessity and not because he's an evil traitor, but I can't declare him that good yet. I'm going to read HBP again and see if I can make up my mind!
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
forte said:
I'm going to read HBP again and see if I can make up my mind!
Good luck! I've been through it 3.5 times, and every time i see something in a different light, and it still goes back and forth. I think of the unbreakable vow, that Shape HAD to take to save face in the DE camp, and know that if Snaper were on the order's side, that he certainly would have told DD, not only about the vow but of Draco's assignment. and we do know that DD knew of that. One time I will look at the "look of revultion" on Snape's face and think he hated DD, the the next time it seems that it was because he hated what he had to do. One thing that I think though, is if Snape were on the DE side, wouldn't he have first encouraged Draco to finish what he had started, and not so quickly done the deed himself. Or. . . was it that he had indeed discussed it with DD and had been asked by DD to do it himself to 1. keep his position close to Voldemort, and 2. Save Draco from becoming a murderer. There of course could have been many other contingency plans as well. I like the idea that Snape made the potion, have thought that likely all along. We are reminded again how good Snape is at potions, not just that he taught it, but he was often asked to make potions for others, and his writings in his book was what the HBP got it's title from!

It is still so hard not to ride the fence on this though. I am leaning to the good side, but haven't found the push I need to get my leg all the way over yet. some of it is because of another quote I heard on an interview once, where JKR was wondering why so many were "attracted" to Snape. since "He's not a very nice person". . . but then again we have Hagrid saying that the world isn't divided into just nice people and Death Eaters. There are "good guys" that aren't all that nice. Just look at Mundungus!
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
If we break down the possibilities, maybe it will be a bit easier to sort this out, (for me anyway :) )

1. Snape killed Dumbledore simply to keep his vow to Narcissa because Draco obviously wasn't able to kill Dumbledore.

2. Snape killed Dumbledore because he thought he was a dottering old fool, (as I noticed a few times throughout the books that he hinted in that direction.)

3. Dumbledore actually planned his death, time and place in order to set Harry on the right path - Snape killed him unwillingly, but did it out of loyalty to Dumbledore, and to keep Harry going in the right direction.

4. Snape is simply an evil being and has been playing Dumbledore for a fool all these years. Maybe Snape thought that if he could get in close to Dumbledore, he could learn the rest of the prophecy and relay that much desired information to his master. By killing Dumbledore he set himself in a fine place with Voldemort and will now be his most trusted beyond anyone else.
 

SnarkologyMajor

Time Turners
It is extremely difficult to separate this thread from the Evil/Good Snape thread since one depends on the other. Given the evidence of Dumbledore's memory of Trelawney's prophecy in the pensieve, I can only see 2 options-1 that Snape heard the whole thing or 2-that Snape heard none of the prophecy. Either way-he only told Voldemort the first part, which would mean his goal is to destroy Voldemort. Now I'm not completely ruling out that his ultimate goal is to replace Voldemort himself, but that sure seems to over-complicate an already over-complicated ending. If this were true though, then Fortescue's #2 or #4 could be possible-he's used Dumbledore for everything that he needed and now he's finished with him. Even though I'm keeping this option open-my gut feeling is that Snape is ultimately going to sacrifice himself to the cause. As for #1- wouldn't he have prodded Draco to do the deed as per the Unbreakable Vow like SiriusPotterFan suggested? Since the Vow w/Narcissa was ultimately to protect Draco, then Snape really needed to push Draco, since Voldemort was going to kill him if he failed?(Hope that made sense:) ) # 3-Is very probable, but I think this is almost impossible to figure out the details of without knowing the exact reason Dumbledore trusted Snape to his last breath. My best guess is that the two of them have had a last resort contingency plan in place for a long time (not just Book 6) to do whatever it took to protect Harry until he could destroy Voldemort. In this guess we have to look at everything that conspired against them that night.
1. Dumbledore drank a potion that in all likelyhood would kill him w/o antidote and it seems like a couple of hours had passed-time was running out.
2. Harry was lying frozen a few feet away with Deatheaters likely to step on him and discover him any minute.
3. Snape had the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa, if he didn't follow through, his cover would be blown and he would be killed by Voldemort.
4. The school was overrun with Deatheaters and Snape certainly got them out of there in a hurry!
When you read that final scene with Snape/Harry from this perspective Snape's pain comes through loud and clear. Somehow though he managed to leave Harry with a few more lessons that he is clearly going to have to learn.:D
When it comes to the cave scene, I'm so confused-to put it mildly! There are too many things about this chapter that don't add up, and I'm still trying to sort it out.
I had thought it might have been a setup myself although via the clue that Aberforth has the locket. My daughter pointed out that Dumbledore says he isn't sure which horcrux it is on page 547. All I can think is that if this was a setup-then it was all done in order to lead Harry to Regulus. Of course one has to wonder why the heck they would have to go to all that trouble. That's why I've been trying to tackle the Regulus/Sirius puzzle-I feel that is the missing link.
Oh what a tangled tale she weaves!!:eek: :eek:
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Snape killed Dumbledore because Dumbledore asked him to - and as much as he would have struggled with it - he respected Dumbledore and all he did for him too much to not give the man his final wish.
Sure - it was extreme and he commited an act that is unforgivable - but given the situation he was presented with - he knew he had to ...
If he didnt kill Dumbledore then one of the others would have done it - and maybe not have done it quickly - making Dumbledore suffer ...
Snape knew what he had to do - Dumbledore even pushed him when Snape was finally confronted with the deed and had a moment's hesitation - but he did what Dumbledore had asked him to do ...
I have no doubts in my mind that all he did that night was what Dumbledore had told him he must do for the greater good.
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
SnarkologyMajor said:
All I can think is that if this was a setup-then it was all done in order to lead Harry to Regulus. Of course one has to wonder why the heck they would have to go to all that trouble. That's why I've been trying to tackle the Regulus/Sirius puzzle-I feel that is the missing link.
Oh what a tangled tale she weaves!!:eek: :eek:


I wonder if JKR intended the clue of R.A.B to be easy for us, easy for Harry, (he does tend to be a bit slow on the uptake at times,) or to be a complete trick for everyone?

Something rang in my mind as I read down through everyone's responses again. When Flitwick went to get Snape to tell him the Death Eaters were in the castle, Snape stunned Flitwick, but did not stun Hermione and Luna. But why?

I think he needed them to be witness to what was happening, to tell the rest of the world that Snape was evil and he stunned Flitwick to keep him out of the way, after all, Flitwick is the school expert on Charms. If that was the case and he was setting things in motion to point toward his guilt when he wasn't guilty of anything more then following Dumbledore's orders and setting things up the way Dumbledore wanted. The talk in the hospital wing after Harry told Lupin, the Weasley's and Professor McGonagall that Dumbledore was dead - Lupin and McGonagall both stated that Dumbledore trusted Snape, but you could tell, personally, they both had reservations about his character and purpose at Hogwarts.

I'm trying to sort this out without defending Snape too much, but things keep pointing back to him playing out a game that Dumbledore set in motion. Maybe in the end we will find out that Snape never did really work exclusively for Voldemort, but was a spy for Dumbledore all along, then that definitely would have made his killing of Dumbledore the hardest thing he'd ever done.


SnarkologyMajor said:
Given the evidence of Dumbledore's memory of Trelawney's prophecy in the pensieve, I can only see 2 options-1 that Snape heard the whole thing or 2-that Snape heard none of the prophecy.

You know that's an interesting thought. What if in all reality, Snape heard nothing of the prophecy, but was instructed by Dumbledore to tell Voldemort the first part of it, all but the actual important information so Voldemort would show his hand? Dumbledore could have set it all up, Aberforth was his brother and would attest to anything Dumbledore asked him to-Trelawney is an idiot - Dumbledore could have planted her memory of Snape hearing part of the prophecy at a later time. (Remember the version of the prophecy that Dumbledore showed Harry did not stop half way through and show Snape spying at the door!) Maybe that's why he wanted to keep her at Hogwarts where he could keep an eye on her not only so Voldemort didn't get a hold of her and get the prophecy anyway, but so he wouldn't see the imperfect memory that Dumbledore planted showing Snape getting caught eavesdropping. Dumbledore is a smart man, yet Harry's insinuations about Snape never ruffled him. I think there might be more to their relationship then we've been led to believe, and Snape's words to Harry "Don't call me a coward," was Snape's true regret for what he had to do to Dumbledore.
 
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SnarkologyMajor

Time Turners
When you put the evidence together it makes you realize how dangerous Trelawney really is and why Dumbledore would absolutely not want her to leave Hogwarts! I wonder what is going to happen now with him gone? She's not only a threat to Snape but ultimately I believe to Harry. I was trying to figure out why Dumbledore would make her believe she was interupted halfway through and had to conclude it was a cover for Snape, but if they planted a false memory wouldn't Voldemort see through that? We got a look at what a false memory looked like in HBP. If Voldemort got a hold of Trelawney, Snape's screwed either way-Voldemort would see what really happened and the attempt to cover it up. Therefore, they must have made Trelawney believe she was interupted to convince the other members of the Order of the Phoenix? I have a feeling in the end we're going to be in for alot of suprises when it comes to Severus!:D I'm leaning towards the idea that something Voldemort did to his family when he was growing up was so traumatic that it shaped the rest of his life. Before HBP came out I figured if it turns out that Snape is on Dumbledore's side, then something Voldemort did must have really, really, really made him angry to the depths of his soul. We know he came to school knowing more curses than half the seventh years and taken at face value you lean towards him starting out evil, however if you look at it as he set out to learn everything he could to destroy Voldemort as a child, it sort of makes sense. It also makes sense that Dumbledore would take a boy totally driven by vengeance under his wing to prevent him from doing something stupid. It also explains his hatred towards James and Sirius, can you imagine a teen who is already working toward taking down Voldemort by living a double life, while James and Sirius are smug and conceited about being noble Gryffindors all while acting very immature. Although this is normal teenage angst and not a fair reflection of who they become, it certainly turns the tables when it comes to Snape's point of view. When I read through everything Snape has ever said to Harry without looking at it from Harry's perspective I got the feeling Snape put Harry at arm's length for a reason. This is all speculation, but if Snape knew that Harry's scar is a horcrux, then he certainly wouldn't want Harry in his head! And Harry has been there a few times now. When you consider that Snape is the person who just happened to be the one who told Voldemort the first half of the prophecy, it just so happens that the first thing he ever says to Harry includes a bezoar(which saves Ron's life), it just so happens that Narcissa comes to him with a plan that involves killing Dumbledore-We have to ask ourselves how these could all just be coincidences.I know that J.K.R. made the comment about Snape not being too nice(he's not!) but she also set the record straight about him not being the Prince of Darkness-she can be very tricky!
As for R.A.B. and the locket, even though it seems simple on the surface-it's not!
I'm finding that out the hard way!!:D Just when I think I'm making inroads-SPLAT-hit a brick wall!LOL
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
IF Dumbledore did ask Snape to pass the start of the prophecy back to Voldemort - then this whole thing is his fault!
Think about it - the prophecy only exists in more than just words because Voldemort made/makes it so - as such Dumbledore gave him the light to spark the fuse ... now we are defo in DiE land!
All I can say is no - either that or you just proved DiE with no effort on my behalf!
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Alz said:
IF Dumbledore did ask Snape to pass the start of the prophecy back to Voldemort - then this whole thing is his fault!
Think about it - the prophecy only exists in more than just words because Voldemort made/makes it so - as such Dumbledore gave him the light to spark the fuse ... now we are defo in DiE land!
All I can say is no - either that or you just proved DiE with no effort on my behalf!

I knew you would think that way :eek: I'll admit, I thought of DiE when I was writing it, but you know how I feel about Dumbledore and would never besmirch the man intentionally. I think the entire mystery behind all of this lies in Dumbledore's relationship with Snape and possibly, a mislaid plan that went awry.

SnarkologyMajor said:
When you put the evidence together it makes you realize how dangerous Trelawney really is and why Dumbledore would absolutely not want her to leave Hogwarts! I wonder what is going to happen now with him gone?

When I look back on how much Dumbledore has protected her - he gave her a job when he didn't like the subject she taught and he knew she was abysmal at Divination, but he kept her on for sixteen years anyway. Then there was the scene with Umbridge trying to throw Trelawney out and Dumbledore ordered her to stay at Hogwarts. He has protected her closely and if you put the fact that the memory he placed in the Pensieve of Trelawney and the prophecy was not interrupted by Snape's being caught eavesdropping. Remember too that the other time we saw Trelawney go into a trance, she didn't know what she had said or what was going on around her. How was it that she could remember Snape being there if she was only half way through the prophecy when Aberforth supposedly found Snape spying and opened the door? It just doesn't add up to what other things JKR has shown us since. Sure, if Dumbledore planted a false memory into Trelawney of what he wanted her to think happened that night, and he set things in motion that didn't turn out the way he had hoped, maybe he does feel guilt, and maybe that's why he paid such close attention to Harry and assured is safety throughout the years, but I believe his intentions were good. And yes, if Voldemort captured Trelawney, that would be devastating for Snape, although, I believe Dumbledore could plant a false memory much better then what Slughorn did with his memory of his conversation with Riddle about Horcruxes. However, the biggest consideration there is now is at the end of HBP, to our knowledge, Trelawney was missing! Could that be an indicator that Voldemort now has her and is finding out things Dumbledore never wanted him to know?

As I said before, I think the relationship between Snape and Dumbledore is much more then we've been lead to believe and it might be the key to everything that's happened so far. Obviously, Dumbledore has acted much the same as Voldemort - he hasn't told all of the Order about why he trusts Snape and it seems he doles out information only when necessary. I guess you could look upon it as the best way to handle security under the circumstance, but it sounds like Snape is the most knowledgeable on both fronts of any other within either organization, and now that Dumbledore's gone, he seems to know more about what's going on then anyone in the Order. I'd say that'a a huge disadvantage to the good guys and if Aberforth doesn't step in as the man with all the answers for Harry, Snape will be a very powerful person.
 
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Alz

Administrator
Staff member
You know each time you post in here Forte - you seem to be moving more and more towards a DiE concept ... :D
You know that we discussed in another thread the way Dumbledore interacted with Sybil in OoTP - the part you quoted above ... and once again we can all see avenues on that ...
But one of your last points is a real factor in this - Dumbledore has chose to share with none (that we know of) why he trusted Snape - and given all the times he has been confronted over it - you have to ask ... even at the very end if he did agree Snape would kill him - why he never told Harry ...
I think that is a big clue as to what it could be - something that effects Harry and by telling him Harry would respond towards him in a negative manner - moreso than deflecting the question ...
Why did Snape kill Dumbledore could just as easily be answer along with why Dumbledore trusts Snape ... because the thing that ties them seem to be enough that Dumbledore will not pass on the details to anyone - even the most trusted people around him - guessing it is now down to Snape to let us all know
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Alz said:
You know each time you post in here Forte - you seem to be moving more and more towards a DiE concept ... :D

I know it might sound that way, but honestly, Dumbledore is my hero and I can't fault him for a few mistakes, now can I? :)

Alz said:
But one of your last points is a real factor in this - Dumbledore has chose to share with none (that we know of) why he trusted Snape - and given all the times he has been confronted over it - you have to ask ... even at the very end if he did agree Snape would kill him - why he never told Harry ...
I think that is a big clue as to what it could be - something that effects Harry and by telling him Harry would respond towards him in a negative manner - moreso than deflecting the question ...
Why did Snape kill Dumbledore could just as easily be answer along with why Dumbledore trusts Snape ... because the thing that ties them seem to be enough that Dumbledore will not pass on the details to anyone - even the most trusted people around him - guessing it is now down to Snape to let us all know

Just think of how powerful that would make Snape though, regardless of whose side he's really on! If it's true that he was Dumbledore's most trusted, and it does turn out that he is evil, that could be devastating for the Order. I tend to lean toward the fact that Dumbledore did possibly beg Snape to kill him, but if other theories are correct, wouldn't that have been dangerous? If all the Death Eaters can use Occlumency, could thoughts being passed between two people be picked up by someone else who knows how to do it? (That's another thread :) )

Anyway, I think Aberforth will be the deciding factor in the final book. He will be the one who has the answers Harry needs, and possibly, if it's true that Snape is not a traitor, it might be Aberforth who enlightens Harry to exactly what has been going on all along. Someone has to tell him, as any confrontation Harry might have with Snape, if he doesn't know the truth, could be extremely dangerous for both of them, especially if Voldemort or one of the Death Eaters witness the fact that Snape didn't kill Harry that night at Hogwarts, and then if they faced each other again and he doesn't kill him again, Snape's cover would be blown. If Snape is still on the side of the Order, he's surely a dead man before book seven is over, either way, something will happen and he won't live to the end, whether someone kills him out of vengance for Dumbledore's death, or Voldemort kills him because he finds out the truth, Snape is a goner!
 

Sirius Potter Fan

Night Patroll
I hadn't thought about Snape being a goner any way things go, but it does seem likely. . . As things stand, Harry I think would be quite happy to take care of him. I think the truth of Snape won't come out definatively untill right at the end, when he shows his true colors when both forces are at the final battle, he will be forced one way or the other, and likely killed by the one he doesn't choose, but, . .not before he does some significant damage, possibly destroying a horcrux Voldemort has placed in his care???(just a guess) There will be some more back story, and I do think at some point we will learn of the entire reason of Dumbledore's trust. Dumbledore not only trusted his life to Snape, but Harry's and members of the order's as well. He is too wise to risk all that without substantial reason.
 

kashlie

afraid of my own shadow
Sirius Potter Fan said:
He is too wise to risk all that without substantial reason.


I have to agree. If DD had even the slightest bit of doubt about Snape, after everything Harry told him, he wouldn't have continued to trust him so defiantly. I believe that DD trusted Snape with his life, right down to how he should die. I also think that Snape may be the one to help Harry continue DD's work - yes, it would most likely mean he would have to prove Bellatrix right, that he was never really on Voldemort's side, but JK wrote about DD's trust so well, she made Dumbledore a person we as the readers are supposed to trust. (Of course, this could have been a cruel trick on her part). Why exactly he killed DD then and there? Perhaps to stop Malfoy from doing it, or being killed for his failure. We have to remember that had Malfoy let one of the others do the job, Voldemort would have punished him. With it being Snape, I am sure he has some excuse as to why he had to finish the job.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
So - in answer to the thread then - the reason he killed him was because he liked, trusted and was in debt to Dumbledore?
Could be sarcastic and say nice repayment - but alas if it really was Dumbledore's wish - would that have been enough?
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
JKR has portrayed Snape as an evil, foul person throughout the series. Sure, we've always been lead to believe that he is at Hogwarts as some type of repentance for his past actions, but I believe that is just a ruse. I think Snape has been on Dumbledore's side all along and the things that happened when the Potters were killed was simply an excuse for Snape to make Voldemort think he was placed in the perfect position to spy on Dumbledore by taking the teaching job at Hogwarts.

I'm sure that Dumbledore recognized Snape's talents with potions and spells when he was still a student, and he probably noted his anger at the world for his abysmal childhood. The few bits of the younger Snape we saw showed the violence that made up his life. Did he really want that kind of life? It's possible that Dumbledore is the one who taught Snape how to do Occlumency - maybe Snape had private lessons with Dumbledore when he was a student just the same as Harry did!

A close relationship between Dumbledore and Snape would have to be kept quiet by the two of them for security reasons, thus it is understandable why Dumbledore never told anyone why he trusted Snape so. If Snape looked upon Dumbledore as a father figure because his father was worthless in that role, maybe Snape's act of killing Dumbledore was the ultimate sacrifice they both made in order for Harry to progress to the next level of what he had to do. If Dumbledore knew what would happen to him by drinking the potion, then I'd think for Harry's sake, he could have waited to get that Horcrux until he found a few of the others first so he'd be around to help Harry a bit longer.
 

SnarkologyMajor

Time Turners
I agree Fortescue-I think J.K.R. has helped that ruse along too, with her obscure answers about Snape. She seems determined for us to view Snape from Harry's perspective!(She does that alot:p ) There are many instances when Harry thinks Snape's just being cruel-when in actuality it can be viewed as Snape trying to teach him some things he needs to know. For example-Snape sure seemed anxious for Harry to learn to be prepared for dirty tactics in the dueling club scene from COS-I think the only reason he even volunteered is Harry! Clearly he didn't want to be in the same room w/Lockhart. I also felt he was testing to see if Harry knew parseltongue. There are many more instances but that would take forever...:D All those essays Harry complained about seem to be relevant also. The foe-glass scene from GOF is most compelling and helps w/walking this very fine Dumbledore line;) One thing Jo really excels at is creating multi-faceted characters and getting the point across that people aren't divided into the "good guys and the deatheaters"-all of her characters have faults! As far as why Dumbledore went after this particular horcrux first and left Harry still in the dark about certain things is confusing, and can't help feel it's all part of some much larger plan.
Something I'm trying to sort out is the fact that Snape started teaching about a year after Lily and James were killed and he told Umbridge that he applied for the DADA job(and every yr. since) Now Snape had to have known that the position was cursed-it feels like it was done for his cover but..can't quite figure this out?? It seems important though...I'm also terrible with timelines! Any thoughts on this?:confused:
 
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