Why did Snape kill Dumbledore?

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
I think you are right - at the very least in all of this - Snape believes he killed Dumbledore - as such that doesnt sound so much like a well executed plan between the two or indeed Snape is a great actor and why the heck would he need to act in this situation?
So - the question once again comes back to why Snape killed him - if it wasnt a plan but I think we agree he isnt all out evil - then why would he have taken that pretty terminal and crucial step?
Is there another reason he had to kill him - could it be tied to the reason Dumbledore trusts Snape?
This is exciting because it opens up the possibilities a lot more as to the motivations of the attack. I am still in the back of my mind a 'Snape killed Dumbledore because that was the plan they hatched' kind of person but looking at the posts above you have to bring that back into question ... of course the sheer emotion of actually carrying out the act you had been building up to could have lead to the emotions we saw as well ... ummm
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
I think they had a plan, but the plan was one that was flexible as they had to know if the time and opportunity came to show Snape as an evil enemy and not a reformed Death Eater, they would take that opportunity. Thus, the argument Hagrid overheard between Dumbledore and Snape. I think they had it planned, but left the actual final blow open to opportunity, which Snape found on top of the tower. He had all the witnesses he needed with all the Death Eaters there. I doubt that he knew Harry was there, but that was an aid to the plan so that the Order knew what had happened. Everyone would now think he was evil all along, but was that how it was supposed to happen?

Maybe it wasn't supposed to happen that way and Snape was supposed to still be thought of as a spy for the Order. Maybe part of the plan had not worked out the way Snape and Dumbledore wanted. Whatever had been preplanned between the two, by Harry's witnessing Dumbledore's death, unless there was someone else in the Order who was aware of the plan, that door is now closed to Snape. I'm pretty sure that anyone in the Order would have the kill-on-sight mentality upon seeing Snape again. If Harry had not been on the tower and Snape had not left with the Death Eaters, Snape's position in the Order would have remained the same, yet the Death Eaters would know, (or think they knew) that Snape was loyal to only Voldemort.

Another thought occured to me. Snape's actions on the tower would show his loyalty to Voldemort. What about Bellatrix? She wasn't there on one of Voldemort's most important nights - his biggest enemy was dead and Snape killed him. What will happen to Bellatrix since she wasn't there, and I guess I'd want to know why she wasn't there since it was her nephews assignment to do what Snape had to do for him? Where was Bellatrix during all this and what will happen to her possition as Voldemort's most trusted when he finds out Dumbledore is dead and she wasn't there at Hogwarts with the others?
 
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Well we have several options...

1- the unbreakable vow
2-his "loyalty" to Voldemort
3- The fact that he is so ambitious the he would lure anyone to get what he wants...


personally I was always suspicious of Snape...
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
See Forte made a great point there and something that was playing on my mind - why wasnt Bellatrix there?
This is what makes me still think that the removal of Dumbledore and the DE's fighting the Order in Hogwarts was just a smokescreen and in the Background the 'A' team of Voldemort and Bellatrix etc was up to something else ... her absense makes me wonder!

Of course - by having Snape kill in the view of all DE's it would have put to bed any nagging doubts Voldemort or any of the DE's were having over him - perhaps move him that step closer to Voldemort - perhaps it is enough for Voldemort to finally have trust in one of his servants ... perhaps that was Dumbledore final plan?
Of course on the flip side - as much as Harry now wants Snape - so do the Order - by having him enemy number one it seems certain that the Order or Harry will give finding and locating him the higest attentions - so once again it was a smart move by Dumbledore ...
Lupin is inside the circle somewhat with Greyback - it is possible he might learn of the location of Snape, Draco and finally Voldemort ... and could lead Harry and the order to the final showdown?
Selfless act of Dumbledore's life still provided so much opportunity for Harry and the order - i'm not discounting Dumbledore felt he was more useful in death that staying around!
 
Still I don't think he planned anything... Snape acted unexpectedly... and... Dumbledore was badly injured... he couldn't react properly and died... we must face it... Snape is evil... as we have seen the reasons Dumbledore trusted Snape ar way too far from those I would... such behaviour shown by Snape would make me at least send Him of to Azkaban...
;)
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Alz said:
Selfless act of Dumbledore's life still provided so much opportunity for Harry and the order - i'm not discounting Dumbledore felt he was more useful in death that staying around!

That part alone makes me know that Dumbledore did sacrifice himself. You could tell by the things he said to Harry when they were alone, like your blood is more important then mine.... stuff like that made me know something was going to happen to Dumbledore. He made the greatest sacrifice so that Harry could succeed and I'm sure that however it came about, whether he and Snape had it planned since Snape made the Unbreakable Vow, or if it maybe happened a little earlier then that, I believe they planned it as closely as they could. Dumbledore knew that with the damage to his hand, the vow Snape took that couldn't be broken and the two attempts on Dumbledore's life that year, he knew he would have to give it up before the end of the school year. It was obvious, Hogwarts had been breached by the enemy and Dumbledore's final act of caring for Harry was to give up his life. :( I still don't like it much!!!
 

Blanche A. McFusty

Time Turners
Don't you think it was so incredibly odd that Dumbledore kept insisting that Harry go "get Snape" when they were returning to the tower? As Fortescue has stated, DD kept insinuating to Harry that he was so much more important than he was. Even as I read through the HBP the first time I realized that Dumbledore was headed to his doom. Why insist to get Snape and Snape ends his life?
 

HeleneB

Time Turners
I think it was part of the plan. I also prefer the possibility that DD faked his death and Snape did not know it. I have a real problem with DD (the epitome of good) requiring Snape to murder him (even if DD was already dying and you believe in mercy killing, it's a pretty low thing to trick someone into doing it for you.) Especially since Snape is on the run from all the good guys, even if LV is defeated, who will speak for Snape?
 
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Alz

Administrator
Staff member
This could be another choice Harry has to make - what is right and what is easy - it would be very easy for him to kill Snape on sight now - whereas to listen to him, understand him and maybe even realise that he isnt the all out bad person JKR has made him out to be ... Harry is like Dumbledore in respect of giving people another chance and this would be symbolic in itself and something that shows a great deal of respect to Dumbledore and his lasting memory, Harry grew up to be like him!
 

Seeker615

Ghosthunter
I think Snape will be HUGE in the destroying of the horcruxes.

It's been established that he knows how to counteract curses. In the end Harry will have to work with Snape for the greater good. (At least I think that is how it will play out)
 

SnarkologyMajor

Time Turners
Well the reason that Dumbledore trusted Snape will be one of the huge bombshells in Book 7-everything that we don't know about Snape yet is what is going to tie alot of these mysteries up! At least that is what my gut says, I won't repeat all the hidden clues JKR gave us that show Snape is not the evil cuss that one sees on the surface(we've covered most bases on that one haven't we?) But would like to point out again that Snape doing what he did-got the deatheaters out of Hogwarts and right quickly at that. As good as an occlumens that Snape was-I'm positive that he knew Harry was lying there invisible. I really don't think that Dumbledore would give up and die (and have Snape kill him) except for one reason-to protect Harry.
 

Blanche A. McFusty

Time Turners
Well, if Snape knew that Harry was there it might explain why he acted so decisively and quickly. It doesn't explain the chase across the grounds, though.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
Blanche A. McFusty said:
Well, if Snape knew that Harry was there it might explain why he acted so decisively and quickly. It doesn't explain the chase across the grounds, though.
Well it still does in some respect - he wasn't going to get a word in edgeways with Harry after Harry see's him kill Dumbledore - this is the big thing now is that Harry wants to kill Snape maybe even more that Voldemort - Voldemort gave Harry his past - Snape made Harry's current life a living hell and to have been part responsible for his parents death - given him such a hard time during his school life and then to kill the one last remaining person Harry had a closeness to - tell ya Harry is going to be filled with hate and loathing when he finally meets Snape again but I think Snape will get to make his peace with Harry - not sure he will live to see the series out because Voldemort is going to be really PO when he finds out that Snape was batting for both sides all that time under his nose...
Still, isn't it great that something so conclusive and defining in the series still has us all guessing as to what exactly transpired on that roof top that night!
I am torn 7 ways from hell on it - but my gut says that Snape and Dumbledore were in cahoots about what was to be done and that explains the outwards emotional Snape we see in the dying chapters of book 6.
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
Alz said:
Well it still does in some respect - he wasn't going to get a word in edgeways with Harry after Harry see's him kill Dumbledore - this is the big thing now is that Harry wants to kill Snape maybe even more that Voldemort - Voldemort gave Harry his past - Snape made Harry's current life a living hell and to have been part responsible for his parents death - given him such a hard time during his school life and then to kill the one last remaining person Harry had a closeness to - tell ya Harry is going to be filled with hate and loathing when he finally meets Snape again but I think Snape will get to make his peace with Harry - not sure he will live to see the series out because Voldemort is going to be really PO when he finds out that Snape was batting for both sides all that time under his nose...

I think that's an important thing JKR was trying to do in HBP. She showed a huge closeness grow between Harry and Dumbledore right from the beginning of the book. Harry waited for a long time for Dumbledore to show up at the Dursley's, he even fell asleep sitting up in a chair.

The end of OotP was important, as I've said about a bazillion times, because we saw Dumbledore express his deepest feelings for Harry and his situation. Then we start out HBP with Harry patiently waiting for Dumbledore to show up at the Dursley's, (as I knew he would) and we saw them together throughout the entire book. All the important things that happened to Harry in book six involved Dumbledore in some way, (except the thing with Ginny.) JKR made a big deal out of the fact that the two of them shared so much. Then Dumbledore is killed by Snape right in front of Harry, (I still don't believe that Snape knew Harry was there.) We heard Trelawney tell Harry about the night at the Hog's Head when Snape was caught eavesdropping and Harry came to the conclusion that's why Dumbledore trusted Snape so much because he was sorry for what happened after he told the part of the Prophecy he heard to Voldemort.

She set us up good to see Harry's anger and what he would be going through into the final book. His determination to finish the job of finding the Horcruxes and Snape, and as much as he loved Hogwarts, Harry was determined to finish finding the Horcruxes before he finished his education in magic. At the end of the book we saw a bit of Harry's anger toward Snape, but how much will that anger grow and fester as Harry dwells on all that has happened between him and Snape since the first potions lesson when he specifically targeted Harry with the questions about Bezors - and how much more will that grow as Harry has time to absorb the fact that Dumbedore is really gone?

If Snape and Dumbledore planned for this to happen, I wonder if Dumbledore took into consideration all the implications of Snape's actions and how dangerous that might be for Snape should Harry find him before he realizes what happened at the top of the tower was actually Dumbledore's idea?
 
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HeleneB

Time Turners
I don't think Harry will be ready to face Snape very soon. As Snape said, in a duel with a wizard you better be good at closing your mind, or your opponent will read you like a book.
 

SnarkologyMajor

Time Turners
Yeah, that's another piece of evidence that shows Snape's true loyalties:D Even after being called a coward and completely losing his cool, he still gave Harry a last parting lesson! Agree-it will probably take a bit for Harry to listen.
 

Alz

Administrator
Staff member
JKR says that Harry will never learn to close his mind - he is too openly emotional and that it what prevents him from being able to master this skill - isn't that all too obvious when you look at the master of closing one's mind and his temperament - one Severus Snape ...
Snape was always been cold, closed, calculated and almost subversive - Harry openly passionate, warm, friendly and caring ... that is the clear difference in the ability to master closing your mind ....
The fact we finally saw Snape loose that veil of ice is the most telling point of this whole discussion - something got under his skin and very deeply - more so than anything else before ... that goes to show you what he was feeling after killing Dumbledore ....
That shows you that Snape is human and caring under that cold exterior and shows he does care about something ...
 

Fortescue

Totally Potterfied!
HeleneB said:
I don't think Harry will be ready to face Snape very soon. As Snape said, in a duel with a wizard you better be good at closing your mind, or your opponent will read you like a book.

We have had debate before in another thread about how Harry's greatest strength is his ability to love, but it could be that his ability to hate will bring out certain powers in him that we have not yet seen. Or maybe the things he has been taught, but not yet mastered, like Occlumency and nonverbal spells will suddenly become easy for him as he enters into a total state of hate and a quest for retribution. Maybe he has to be a bit more like Voldemort in order to face him in the end?!!??!

Maybe Dumbledore knows this and that is why the sudden closeness between Dumbledore and Harry and then Dumbledore's death. It's possible that Harry needs that anger and hate to be a match for Voldemort and Dumbledore and Snape did what they had to in order to prepare Harry for the final meeting with the Dark Lord!
 
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