The Frozen North
Bloody Cold in Norway
Strange that, I thought Voldermort was Nevil's toad, or was that, Nevil is Voldermort's toad....or something like that...;o)
Will Harry die?
- Thread starter The Frozen North
- Start date
I just don't see that last bit happening. When Voldermort possessed Harry in the OoTP, he couldn't stand to be in Harry very long.Alz said:
...and all this talk of Harry having power that the Dark Lord knows not, Dumbledore said that he thought that that power was love. I don't think it's magical in nature.
cagedcactus
Sherbet Lemon
dustin410 said:
right you are. But the problem is, Harry cant finish voldemort off by showing him just love.
I have read some fan fiction around so Hillarious that in the end author actually does end voldemort by Harry showing him love psychology.......
I am sure if JKR thought of Harry's death, she will do it classically. But fans will never forgive her regardless.
SnarkologyMajor
Time Turners
Gee-I finally voted Sorry to say that it was yes...the crux here though isn't so much that either must die at the hand of the other(although since I believe that Harry can't die in a conventional sense, it is a problem )-the clue lies more in the neither can live while the other survives. Whatever events took place the Halloween night that Voldemort tried to kill Harry-the outcome resulted in Harry being unable to truly live. What if Harry has to die, before he can actually live at all? The clues say that Harry was conceived on November 1st(or Oct. 31st) All Saint's Day or Eve-when that door between the living and the dead is open. Voldemort tried to kill Harry on the same date. In Book 1 he gets past the three-headed dog on Halloween(the mythological guard of the underworld) not to mention passing through black flames to get to the last chamber. In Book 2 Harry goes to Nick's Deathday Party (through a door w/black curtains) on Halloween and the Chamber is opened. In Book 3 I believe Halloween is when Sirius goes after Scabbers and Peter goes hiding at Hagrid's and I can't forget The Grim. In Book 4 Halloween is when Harry's name came out of the GOF-which led to the graveyard of Voldemort's "rebirth". For some reason which would seem intentional JKR kept any mention of Halloween out of 5 and 6-yet we were introduced to The Veil and Horcruxes. Voldemort's creation of horcruxes seems to indicate that he is able to keep his soul tied to the land of the living-yet is this the actual case? Or is he really trapped in a place between the living and the dead-the wording of the prophecy would make sense if he is neither truly alive or truly dead. And by his actions-trapped Harry right along w/him. Snape's riddle in SS/PS, Harry's choice to go forward instead of back, and also the golden mist in GOF point to the idea that Harry will have to choose to leave the world that he knows in order to defeat Voldemort, in other words he will have to die Yet my hope is that his death will lead to life as it was meant to be-I will remain optomistic
Sorry to say that it was yes...the crux here though isn't so much that either must die at the hand of the other(although since I believe that Harry can't die in a conventional sense, it is a problem )-the clue lies more in the neither can live while the other survives. Whatever events took place the Halloween night that Voldemort tried to kill Harry-the outcome resulted in Harry being unable to truly live. What if Harry has to die, before he can actually live at all? The clues say that Harry was conceived on November 1st(or Oct. 31st) All Saint's Day or Eve-when that door between the living and the dead is open. Voldemort tried to kill Harry on the same date. In Book 1 he gets past the three-headed dog on Halloween(the mythological guard of the underworld) not to mention passing through black flames to get to the last chamber. In Book 2 Harry goes to Nick's Deathday Party (through a door w/black curtains) on Halloween and the Chamber is opened. In Book 3 I believe Halloween is when Sirius goes after Scabbers and Peter goes hiding at Hagrid's and I can't forget The Grim. In Book 4 Halloween is when Harry's name came out of the GOF-which led to the graveyard of Voldemort's "rebirth". For some reason which would seem intentional JKR kept any mention of Halloween out of 5 and 6-yet we were introduced to The Veil and Horcruxes. Voldemort's creation of horcruxes seems to indicate that he is able to keep his soul tied to the land of the living-yet is this the actual case? Or is he really trapped in a place between the living and the dead-the wording of the prophecy would make sense if he is neither truly alive or truly dead. And by his actions-trapped Harry right along w/him. Snape's riddle in SS/PS, Harry's choice to go forward instead of back, and also the golden mist in GOF point to the idea that Harry will have to choose to leave the world that he knows in order to defeat Voldemort, in other words he will have to die Yet my hope is that his death will lead to life as it was meant to be-I will remain optomisticSaid this so often now but will say it again - the reason Voldemort could not possess Harry in OoTP was because of when he thought of Sirius and was filled with love - up to that point Voldemort was quite happy occupying the same time and space as Harry - it was only Harry that seemed to struggle!dustin410 said:
Does make you wonder thou while he was in there - or maybe that is the reason he did it so easily ... bit of an old hand at 'owning' part of Harry ...
BTW - excellent post SM - lovin' the last couple of lines there - something to chew on huh?
I feel that Harry shouldn't die. That padma Patil girl really made a point. Tolkien did a pretty excellent job of ending his story well without killing frodo so i think that J.K rowling can do the same also.
Also, harry can't die because he is not a horcrux. i'm not completely aware, but doesn't your soul have to be split in order to have a part of someone else's soul put into you? and harry has never killed anyone so it can't work. If harry did have a part of voldemorts soul then he would have to die in order to vanquish voldemort! voila! I AM A GENIUS...i think.
if anyone has anything to say about my reply then tell me so. i could be wrong for all i know.
sincerely,
hipturkey
Also, harry can't die because he is not a horcrux. i'm not completely aware, but doesn't your soul have to be split in order to have a part of someone else's soul put into you? and harry has never killed anyone so it can't work. If harry did have a part of voldemorts soul then he would have to die in order to vanquish voldemort! voila! I AM A GENIUS...i think.
if anyone has anything to say about my reply then tell me so. i could be wrong for all i know.
sincerely,
hipturkey
SnapeLovesLily
Time Turners
Now i dont think harry will die and be finished. I believe harry is more like fawkes then we realize. Harry has throughout the books had another voice in his head, his own, but it's always the voice of reason or sometimes aggresion no matter which it is it always helps. I think this is a sign of fawkes or really the phoenix inside harry. And the way harry reacts when he hears fawkes sing. This could be reaching, but it could be that harry dies and comes back to life just like a phoenix.
Ok, gonna expose my LoTR ignorance here (only seen the films) but didnt Frodo go off to the death thing at the end of the film - idk, they went off in that boat with the chick that needed to die ... argghhh - someone will correct me but wasnt it like a symbolic death?hipturkey said:
In order to create a horcrux - you have to kill - the torn piece of soul is then stored in an object - you can use a living host but it is ill advised ... so no, there is no reasons Harry cant be a horcrux - but then again we have threads on HiaH and Hi not aH - I reckon you might want to share those thoughts there thanks
Harry dying will bring ultimate closure - I'm not beyond him coming back somehow but would prefer he was reunited with Sirius, Dumbledore and his folks - i'm sure that would make him happy as well ... it also breaks the Ouroboros circle Harry and Voldemort are caught in - the snake will no longer eat it's own tail!
cagedcactus
Sherbet Lemon
Alz said:Ok, gonna expose my LoTR ignorance here (only seen the films) but didnt Frodo go off to the death thing at the end of the film - idk, they went off in that boat with the chick that needed to die ... argghhh - someone will correct me but wasnt it like a symbolic death?
In order to create a horcrux - you have to kill - the torn piece of soul is then stored in an object - you can use a living host but it is ill advised ... so no, there is no reasons Harry cant be a horcrux - but then again we have threads on HiaH and Hi not aH - I reckon you might want to share those thoughts there thanks
Harry dying will bring ultimate closure - I'm not beyond him coming back somehow but would prefer he was reunited with Sirius, Dumbledore and his folks - i'm sure that would make him happy as well ... it also breaks the Ouroboros circle Harry and Voldemort are caught in - the snake will no longer eat it's own tail!
Ok how about this.
Harry destroys all the 6 Horcruxes in Book 7. Then he goes on to fight with Tom. Harry defeats Tom somehow, but Tom is not destroyed. He simply loses his body like before.
why? Harry finds out he himself is that unknown Horcrux.
So in order to prevent Tom from coming back, Harry sacrifices himself.
Maybe Harry just walks through that veil in mysteries, to join his real family, and ensure Tom's permanent departure.
Painful and Tragic? you bet.
Heroic, brave and fan friendly ending? seems like it, doesnt it?
what you guys think?
The Frozen North
Bloody Cold in Norway
Just to update your LotR knowledge Alz: The Elves were imortal in terms of illness and age. They were all created on an isle of the sea and left in boats to colonise Middle Earth. Whe one of them died, their soul returned to the isle (can't remember the name right now) to "go home" and live once again with their creator. By the time of LotR it was time for ALL elves to make a choice, either become mortal and live with men (the race of men, not just some random chaps that they met down the pubAlz said:Ok, gonna expose my LoTR ignorance here (only seen the films) but didnt Frodo go off to the death thing at the end of the film - idk, they went off in that boat with the chick that needed to die ... argghhh - someone will correct me but wasnt it like a symbolic death?
In order to create a horcrux - you have to kill - the torn piece of soul is then stored in an object - you can use a living host but it is ill advised ... so no, there is no reasons Harry cant be a horcrux - but then again we have threads on HiaH and Hi not aH - I reckon you might want to share those thoughts there thanks
Harry dying will bring ultimate closure - I'm not beyond him coming back somehow but would prefer he was reunited with Sirius, Dumbledore and his folks - i'm sure that would make him happy as well ... it also breaks the Ouroboros circle Harry and Voldemort are caught in - the snake will no longer eat it's own tail!
) or return to "the isle" and live with their maker. It is almost a symbolic death but in choosing to return to "the isle" without tasting death they are choosing to live an imortal life in the one place that they can. Not quite sure what this means for mortals such as Bilbo and Frodo but I assume it has something to do with Elven magic being able to help them and keep them "imortal".
In essens it is Tolkien's parallel to Christianity with a soul being rewarded after life with the opportunity to live with it's creator. In Christian terms this relates to the Millenium, a period when Christ shall return and rule for 1000 years and no one shall taste death but in stead shall be "translated" into their imortal form.
Halleluiah!!!cagedcactus said:
That my friend, is exactly the way I have been saying it for the last year!
TFN - dude that was profound!
See, I knew a LoTR peep would sort that out but from how I saw it those people on the boat where going to meet their maker and never return to middle earth - ergo why I was unsure what hipturkey was saying.
Thanks for more than clearing that one up
I know we all hate when one hits the agreement peice. But I always figured Harry would have to die in that manner, after I heard that Rowling said this would be the last Harry Potter book. Now whether this is true or not, I don't quite know, but If it were to be the last of her Harry Potter series, she'd have to end it in a way where people like me wouldn't keep asking for more.
Oh, and I'm definately feelin the LoTR X Christianity relation there. Sadly enough, I never looked that far into it.
Oh, and I'm definately feelin the LoTR X Christianity relation there. Sadly enough, I never looked that far into it.
cagedcactus
Sherbet Lemon
Alz said:
I am glad you approve it. I just have one thought.
We have a lot of people here saying Harry is a goner. Most of them believe that because they think that JKR want to end this in 7. So that means Harry will have to go in order to close it at 7.
But I also say this. JKR says that she wants to end at book 7 for now. We dont know the exact reason. We can assume all we want but the reason for her statement could be anything. Maybe she needs better, different, more lucrative ideas to carry this stroy any further. Every story has to end somewhere temporarily in order to keep fans loyal.
Maybe 10 years down the toad when new generation kicks in, why not come back with this hit series?
But as the starter of this thread said. Frozen north wants to hear logical reason for Harry's fate, not our beliefs or desires.
Logic says either.
JKR holds that key.
Padma Patil
Dumbledore's Girl
Hmm, thats some pretty deep stuff there. However, I don't think JKR really has to worry about loyal fans. Not to mention, why would she come out with another series when she and her kids and probably her grandkids are set as far as finances go?
Unless she just really likes to write. I mean every talented and even the untalented writers need opinions about their work. Some like myself get them off of a website where they post short stories, and some like JKR publish their work and then the globe gets to comment on it.
Oh, and cagedcactus, you mentioned something about Harry finding and destroying the other six horcruxes and then killing himself as the seventh, but that wouldn't work because one of the horcruxes is already destroyed, the ring, and possibly the locket, nobody knows whats up with that thing yet.
Unless she just really likes to write. I mean every talented and even the untalented writers need opinions about their work. Some like myself get them off of a website where they post short stories, and some like JKR publish their work and then the globe gets to comment on it.
Oh, and cagedcactus, you mentioned something about Harry finding and destroying the other six horcruxes and then killing himself as the seventh, but that wouldn't work because one of the horcruxes is already destroyed, the ring, and possibly the locket, nobody knows whats up with that thing yet.
cagedcactus
Sherbet Lemon
Padma Patil said:Hmm, thats some pretty deep stuff there. However, I don't think JKR really has to worry about loyal fans. Not to mention, why would she come out with another series when she and her kids and probably her grandkids are set as far as finances go?
Unless she just really likes to write. I mean every talented and even the untalented writers need opinions about their work. Some like myself get them off of a website where they post short stories, and some like JKR publish their work and then the globe gets to comment on it.
Oh, and cagedcactus, you mentioned something about Harry finding and destroying the other six horcruxes and then killing himself as the seventh, but that wouldn't work because one of the horcruxes is already destroyed, the ring, and possibly the locket, nobody knows whats up with that thing yet.
Regards to your first point here is what I think:
-Harry Potter series has broken all the records and made fortune for JKR. Keeping Harry alive and closing the series for now would give an option to JKR to come back and write more in future if she wanted. Regardless of how much money she made, keeping the options open would never hurt.
-If the series needs to end with some kind of statement that is necessary for JKR to deliver, then yes, Harry's death can be explained easily. It is not like someone is going to steal the theme, because it is all copy righted and all.
To your second point:
what I meant was, in total there are six horcruxes assumed.
The diary- destroyed by Harry.
The ring- destroyed by DD
The Locket- still to be found (RAB mystery)
The cup- still to be found
Nagini- Maybe(not sure about this one)
Something of Ravenclaw or Gryffindor- still to be found
Harry himself can be one as lot of people here claim. I do not. But if he is, then him passing on at the end would justify even more.
IF JKR kills Harry off - the legacy doesn't have to die ... just the 7 books she planned to write about Harry's 7 years of schooling ...
As much as JKR has dismissed the idea of writing a prequel including the young marauders - that still represents a story that could be told ... and not mean a painful backpeddle that writing more Harry Potters books would bring ...
Perhaps she will end the books in a manner where other stories could be spawned but not involving Harry Potter - the life and times of Hermione/Ron/Neville etc - I mean cheesy spin-off's aplenty there!
As much as JKR has dismissed the idea of writing a prequel including the young marauders - that still represents a story that could be told ... and not mean a painful backpeddle that writing more Harry Potters books would bring ...
Perhaps she will end the books in a manner where other stories could be spawned but not involving Harry Potter - the life and times of Hermione/Ron/Neville etc - I mean cheesy spin-off's aplenty there!
Originally I thought Harry would die at the end of the series. I guess it was just a gut feeling based on the prophecy that "neither can live while the other survives". It seemed like Harry and Voldy would do battle and in doing so both of their lives are lost. (especially if Harry was the last horcrux.)
Lately I am thinking Harry will survive the final battle. I am under the impression he still is the final horcrux that needs to be destroyed. I think Harry will discover this and think he needs to be the hero and sacrifice himself for the sake of the wizarding world. But I believe that there will be a way to get rid of the horcrux and spare Harry. (This is where the ultimate trust will come into play as Snape will be the one who has to dislodge that horcrux. Dumbledore stressed he trusts Snape and I think he wanted Harry to trust his judgement as far as Snape is concerned) Once that horcrux is free Harry will be able to do what needs to be done and hopefully go on to become a pro-quiddich player and marry Ginny!
Lately I am thinking Harry will survive the final battle. I am under the impression he still is the final horcrux that needs to be destroyed. I think Harry will discover this and think he needs to be the hero and sacrifice himself for the sake of the wizarding world. But I believe that there will be a way to get rid of the horcrux and spare Harry. (This is where the ultimate trust will come into play as Snape will be the one who has to dislodge that horcrux. Dumbledore stressed he trusts Snape and I think he wanted Harry to trust his judgement as far as Snape is concerned) Once that horcrux is free Harry will be able to do what needs to be done and hopefully go on to become a pro-quiddich player and marry Ginny!
X
xelmoxluvx
Guest
Harry CANNOT die. It would be the worst ending to the bast book series ever written. I'm not saying if it does happen it would be totally horrible, but how could Jk actually kill Harry off after everything??? I just can't wait until it comes out but until then we can only guess what will happen.
L
Lucius's Mistress
Guest
I personally think Harry will die, or at least suffer a near-death experience, in which he sees his parents/Sirius/Albus. I'm not qute sure, and nobody truly will be sure until 7/7/07, which I think is way too long to wait.