Will Harry die?

[happy_hannah]

the only trouble i have with the harry is a horcrux and there for must die scenario is that if he dies, how will he defeat voldemort? because you have to destroy the horcrux's before you get to the last part which is in voldemort, how would harry do this if he is dead? he is the chosen one after all. or does he take the horcrux out of himself (as previous horcrux's are still intact after they have been destroyed) and then sacrifice himself, or die in the process of trying to kill voldemort now that he is horcrux free? the way i see it is if harry dies then the story ends because harry is the narrator, but the the first book didnt start off with him narrating, he started at chapter 2, i guess it will end in the same way like 'and so here we have the end of our story about the boy with the scar' or something along those lines

 

[Seeker615]

My ideal ending would be Harry discovering he is the last horcrux and the only one to remove it safely would be Snape.

It would be the ultimate redemption for Snape and the ultimate in trust for Harry as he hates Snape. But who better to remove it then Snape the dark arts master!

 

[Dr Winterbourne]

I hope that JKR doesn't base her stories on commercial considerations, on what her public want, or anything beyond trying to tell as completely as she can the story that has occured to her.

If she would kill Harry merely so no-one else could write stories in her world, that would be a meaningless death. If he dies, as I think he must, to fulfill the millenial journey of his soul, then, it will be a story that will live on.

I do think he will die. But he will probably come back.

 

[Sirius Potter Fan]

That's an interesting idea Seeker . . . I would love for Harry and Snape to come to some sort of . . . truce . . . to open their minds and accept the other for what they are, instead of what they have each brought themselves to think the other is. Harry had Sirius as a father figure, Dumbledore as well, Voldemort or no Voldemort Harry needs someone, and I think that Snape coud be that person if their minds can open.

 

[RufusMalfoy]

I've seen references to the horcrux's being destroyed, particulary the diary in TCoS, but it wasn't destroyed. It was damaged, causing the stored essence of Voldemort to drain away, but was not destroyed.

 

[cj633]

I think you are confusing horcruxes with the objects ( the diary and the ring) they are hidden in. OoTP and HBP state several times that the horcruxes are destoyed.

I also don't think Harry is a horcrux. OoTP and HBP talk about how Voldemort could not possess Harry without being in agony because he is so full of love " in the end your heart saved you." Dumbledore says Harry is pure of heart and that he has never been tempted by the dark arts. How could Harry have a piece of Voldemort's soul in him and still be the good person he is.
Also if he is a horcrux why would Voldemort have tried to kill him so many times. Voldemort wants to be immortal he would not destroy his own horcrux.

 

[Sirius Potter Fan]

good points cj633 . . . we have two seperate threads where we have discusses the Harry is a Horcrux and Harry is not a Horcrux theories, you might want to check them out. My beliefs are with yours, however, that is not so with our honoured leader! (I will have my revenge when the book comes out!!!)

 

[Arwan]

I been thinking about the prophecy and how it say's "either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives"

So assuming we put stock in the wording of the prophecy, then, if Harry was to die, this would mean that Voldemort would survive. I don't think JKR would want to leave the villain around to reek havoc and destroy the wizarding world. Unless somehow by Harry sacrificing himself it destroys Voldmort powers, but since Voldemort is so resourceful and has come back once without the use of a Horcrux. I still think that Harry will be the one who will survive.

 

[Sir Cadogan]

... since Voldemort is so resourceful and has come back once without the use of a Horcrux ...

How do you know? Does someone say so explicitly? I've been convinced (so far) that Voldemort survived precisely because he managed to "uncork" one of his horcruxes. Am I wrong?

 

[Dr Winterbourne]

Take ease, stout Knight. That 'tis indeed cause of the fell beast's return.

 

[Arwan]

I don't think it was ever specifically said that Voldemort did or didn't use a Horcrux to return, and I did not mean to imply that he did or didn't use a Horcrux. Sorry

What I meant was that in PS/SS I don't think he actually lost that part of his soul, I think the vapour existence was what was left of Voldemort after his attack on Harry. Piece of soul intact but needing a body, and eventually was able to return to power... So if Harry was to die before he could destroy Voldemort, Voldemort would still have a small portion of his soul and would be able to continue on. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if Harry is to die he must defeat Voldemort first. which would mean they both die, unless we are to believe that Voldemort will be the winner this making the prophecy true.

(Hope this makes sense, It really just comes down to me not wanted Harry to die)

 

[horcruxfinder]

Arwan, you make loads of sense. I think vapomort was soul with no body. He got body back through complex magic in GOF. I haven't seen him need to use a horcrux yet because no one has defeated one of his souls yet. Is this true? Do others see this as well? So we now have possible 7 horcruxes still left - assuming he made the last one either into Harry or nagini with death of lily/james in the case of the first or frank brice (i think that is his name) in the case of the second. 1 bit of soul in his body, one in diary now destroyed, one in ring now destroyed, one in locket we don't know if destroyed, one in harry or nagini, one in cup, one in a griffindor or ravenclaw relic and I think that makes seven. Can't wait to find out.

and, thanks to all of you for the continued conversation.

 

[Sir Cadogan]

I think vapomort was soul with no body.

How did that work? Voldemort's body was killed by his own "AK" curse being reflected from Harry's forehead, but his soul wasn't? Strange, I think.

But the center of the problem is, of course: JKR hasn't told us how horcruxes work.
We don't know whether some lingering shadow of a deceased wizard has to find a means of transport to get to one of his horcrux hiding-places, e.g. the cave, and then - what? How does the bit of vapour give the wall any blood as payment for opening? Well, maybe Voldy has some kind of master password that overrules such obstacles as walls or liquid-cover charms.
Alternatively, it could be that the horcruxes are magically linked, so that there is a sort of horcrux activation sequence, where horcrux #1 would know when his master died ... in a kind of SOUL BASIC:

X = 1
LOOPY LOOP
IF MASTER = DEAD
THEN HORCRUX #X = ACTIVATE
X = X + 1
GOTO LOOPY LOOP

 

[Pip]

There are a few excerpts from GOF and HBP that, in my opinion, undoubtedly prove that LV did not use a horcrux to regenerate. Here they are.....

GOF. Chapter 33 - The Death Eaters, pg 566 (english version)

LV to his Death Eaters

' ....I miscalculated my friends, I admit it. My curse was deflected by the woman's foolish sacrifice, and it rebounded upon me. Aaah... pain beyond pain, my friends; nothing could have prepared me for it. I was ripped from my body, I was less than spirit, less than the meanest ghost.... but still, I was alive. What I was even I do not Know.......'

GOF. Chapter 33 - The Death Eaters, pg 566 (english version)


'....I was as powerless as the weakest creature alive, and without means to help myself...for I had no body, and every spell which might have helped me required the use of a wand .....
I remember only forcing myself, sleeplessly, endlessly, second by second, to exist, I settled in a faraway place, in a forest, and I waited....surely, one of my faithful Death Eaters would try and find me... one of them would come and perform the magic I could not, to restore me to a body...but I waited in vain.....'


HBP. Chapter 23 Horcruxes, pg 470 (english version)

DD to Harry

' The seventh part of his soul, however maimed, resides in his regenerated body. That was the part of him that lived a spectral existence for so many years during his exile; without that, he has no self at all. That seventh piece of soul will be the last that anybody wishing to kill Voldemort must attack - the piece that lives in his body.'

LV did not die when the AK curse rebounded because of the horcruxes that he had made. When he was 'ripped' from his body, that part of his soul did not disappear into the afterlife (or whatever happens in JK's world), it was kept earthbound by his horcruxes. He was able to exist in spectral form, untill WT performed the complex magic to give him a body.

LV was 'less than spirit' because there was only a fraction of his soul remaining in his body, the part that he saved from death, by making horcruxes.


??

 

[Piper]

Ah back to used or exist. LOL

 

[Sirus_Lee_Folks]

I lurk here rather than post as you will see when you find that this is only my 3rd post. I believe Harry will die. I am not a religious person but there is a quote from the bible that I think will be referred to in hindsight. “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends (John 15:13).” I believe that Harry will die in the end to save Ron and Hermione and maybe even all of Hogwarts can go on. I read today that there are more than two main character deaths in TGH. My guess is Voldemort will be one, and Harry the other, probably one right after the other. After that is anyone's guess. All I know is that this is one 41 year old that is going to miss having another HP book to look forward too.

 

[Dr Winterbourne]

I just reread all of this, and realised you weren't all talking about what I thought you were.

When you say 'used a horcrux' or 'uncork it' it seems you thought that that would 'use up' a horcrux. I thought it was more like an anchor, as I just said on the thread that has actually been devoted to this topic

 

[Sir Cadogan]

When you say 'used a horcrux' or 'uncorj it' it seems you thought that that would'use up' a horcrux. I thought it was more like an anchor

Dr Winterbourne: Thanks a lot! Your comparison of a horcrux to an anchor for the first time made me see some sense in the whole horcrux business. At first I thought a horcrux was some sort of spare part container; if you die, you organize transport to one of the hiding places, have dead piece of soul removed, have live part of soul taken from horcrux and implanted in old body - voilà. The drawbacks of this procedure are all too obvious.
But your idea of the horcruxes working as a kind of magnet net, sucking the core bit of soul back from the brink of death so it can stay alive - that really makes sense.

 

[Seeker615]

What it appears to be is that as long as you have a horcrux you are basically still alive. You still have pieces of your soul around so you exist until you can be brought back into a human form again. So really you can be around forever as long as that one horcrux exists. In Voldy's case he must have figured someone would eventually look for his horcruxes so he made a lot as a security measure. I am not sure if it works the same every time or not since Voldemort was an unusual case. I wonder if you still have your old body laying around that a spell can bring it back as long as someone knows you created a horcrux. I wonder if we will get a full answer on how all this works.

I really think Harry will make it through. If he does die I hope it is done really well to help ease the horrible loss we will all feel.

 

[Piper]

Ok, as to whether or not Harry will die in book 7, I just finished reading where JKR isn't ruling out a book 8, and not just the book about history etc either..........

http://inhome.rediff.com/movies/2007/jul/10rowling.htm